Guns International

High court to define reach of gun-control laws USA Today article. Excellent read.

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    Dec 1, 2009
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    This is an excellent article regarding a post-Heller case Otis McDonald vs. City of Chicago.

    High court to define reach of gun-control laws - USATODAY.com

    High court to define reach of gun-control laws
    By Joan Biskupic, USA TODAY
    WASHINGTON — In 2008, when national gun rights advocates were looking for residents to challenge Chicago's ban on handguns, Otis McDonald was in effect looking for them. McDonald, 76, says he had seen his neighborhood on the far South Side of Chicago turn from bad to worse over the years with "gangbangers and drug dealers."
    "My wife and I are here alone all the time now," says McDonald, a retired maintenance engineer, who with his wife, Laura, reared three children. "I've got burglar alarms hooked into the police department. I have a shotgun, but a handgun (would be) more handy for me to handle."
    McDonald had driven down to Springfield, Ill., a few years earlier for an Illinois State Rifle Association rally, to support the push for looser gun laws in Chicago. It was the beginning of a bond with gun rights activists that led to McDonald v. City of Chicago, a dispute that will be argued before the Supreme Court on Tuesday and could reshape firearms regulations nationwide.

    CASE LOG: Major cases facing the Supreme Court

    The case marks the second round of high-stakes litigation over the breadth of the Second Amendment — and will likely have wider impact nationwide than the first. In June 2008, the justices struck down a Washington, D.C., handgun ban and declared for the first time that the Second Amendment covers an individual right to keep and bear arms.

    The new question is whether the 2008 decision also applies to cities and states, or only to laws in the federal government and its enclaves, such as Washington. It sets up another major constitutional question with ramifications for scores of mostly urban gun regulations.
    Chicago defends the 1982 law that stops McDonald and other residents from keeping handguns in their homes, arguing that firearms violence is so serious that the court should not extend the 2008 landmark ruling to states.
    Benna Ruth Solomon, the city attorney taking the lead on the new case, says in her brief that states and cities should be able to decide for their own jurisdictions how to reduce crime and also prevent accidental injuries caused by firearms.
    The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, the International Association of Chiefs of Police and two other police groups have joined in a "friend of the court" brief cautioning the justices about how their decision could affect gun regulations nationwide.
    "Courts already have been grappling with over 190 Second Amendment challenges brought against firearms laws and prosecutions in the year and a half since" the justices' ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller, the groups say in their brief.
    They say lawsuits have targeted, among other regulations, those barring loaded guns on public streets and the possession of guns on government property.
    The court said the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to keep guns in the home for self-defense but did not preclude other long-standing laws, such as those that ban felons from having firearms.
    The overriding question in the Chicago case: Does the Second Amendment grant a fundamental right comparable to, say, the First Amendment's guarantee of free speech and the Fourth Amendment's shield against unreasonable searches and seizures? Or, is the Second Amendment in a class of its own because it involves a right to possess a weapon designed to kill or cause injury?
    McDonald's lawyers, backed by 38 states, argue the Second Amendment should protect people against city and state regulation because the right to bear arms is "fundamental to the American scheme of justice."
    The Chicago School Board, backing the city, counters: "We tolerate few restrictions on the right to free speech because of its salutary effects, and because 'sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me,' as the children's rhyme goes. Guns, on the other hand, will kill you."
    'I am doing this for me'
    The case against Chicago's handgun law began while the groundbreaking District of Columbia v. Heller was in the works. Virginia lawyer Alan Gura, who took the lead on the 2008 case, was looking for residents to challenge the Chicago law and offer a broader test of the Second Amendment.
    "I said the Lord is hearing my prayer," recalls McDonald of meeting Gura and other gun rights lawyers in early 2008. "They never pressed me. I'm not doing this for them. I am doing this for me."
    McDonald had been trying for years to protect himself and other seniors in the deteriorating neighborhood.
    Crime in McDonald's area has been steadily rising, although it is mainly property crime rather than violent assaults, according to Chicago police district statistics. Burglaries and thefts are the most common types of crimes in the district. There were 881 burglaries reported in 2006, 1,109 in 2007 and 1,215 in 2008, the most recent annual report available. There were 17 murders in 2008, a number that has held steady since 2006.
    McDonald says he often challenged young drug dealers as they hung around idling cars and warned that he would alert the police: "They'd just call me, 'You old gray-headed so-and-so' and say they'd get me."
    McDonald took the threats seriously.
    When he first got involved with the Illinois State Rifle Association, he was a rare voice from his South Side neighborhood.
    "I was probably the only black at that first meeting" in Springfield, McDonald says. "I met a lot of people. Everybody was friendly." The Army veteran adds that "it was like a bunch of old GIs getting together. ... I liked their message."
    The other three Chicagoans in the lawsuit are Adam Orlov and Colleen and David Lawson. The Second Amendment Foundation and Illinois State Rifle Association are also challengers to the Chicago law. (A separate challenge to a handgun ban in the Village of Oak Park, a Chicago suburb, is also part of the Supreme Court case.)
    Colleen Lawson, 51, says that when she was young, before the city passed the 1982 ban, many people kept handguns in the home to protect themselves.
    "My grandmother carried a handgun in her apron pocket when I was growing up," she says.
    After an attempted burglary in 2006 at the home she and her husband, David, own on the city's North Side, Lawson says she wanted to keep a handgun in the house. She says that would be easier to handle and give her more confidence than an "unwieldy" shotgun, which is legal in Chicago if properly registered.
    On June 26, 2008, the day the Supreme Court invalidated the Washington ban, McDonald, the Lawsons and Orlov were poised to file their lawsuit against Chicago.
    They claimed the new ruling on the Second Amendment meant they should be able to register handguns in the city.
    Lower U.S. courts rejected the challenge and sided with Chicago.
    The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit, which covers Illinois, Indiana and Wisconsin, stressed that the Supreme Court held more than a century ago that the Second Amendment applies only to the federal government. The appeals court said the 2008 Supreme Court ruling did not change that.
    Among the groups backing McDonald and the other residents is the NRA, which won time to argue separately before the justices on the gun rights side.
    "The case comes down to whether people in cities like Chicago are going to have the same rights as people in Washington, D.C.," says Paul Clement, a former U.S. solicitor general under President George W. Bush who will represent the NRA during arguments.
    "It would be an odd constitutional situation if only people in enclaves like Washington had these rights. If the NRA side of this case doesn't prevail in this case, then Heller wasn't that big of a deal — and people thought Heller was a big deal."
    Chicago city lawyers say states and cities should be able to work out their own solutions to gun crime. Solomon highlights the city's problem in her brief: "Handguns were used in 402 of 412 firearm homicides in Chicago in 2008. Handguns are used to kill in the United States more than all other weapons — firearms and otherwise — combined."
    In 2008, the city reported 510 murders, up from 445 in 2007.
    Siding with Chicago are three states with populous urban centers: Illinois, Maryland and New Jersey.
    They contend that if McDonald wins, "nearly every firearms law will become the subject of a constitutional challenge, and even in cases where the law ultimately survives, its defense will be costly and time-consuming."
    On the other side, Texas leads 38 states in saying the Second Amendment should apply beyond Washington. They note that 44 state constitutions include a right to keep and bear arms.
    A test for Sotomayor
    McDonald v. City of Chicago is shaping up to be one of the most consequential cases of the term.
    Fifty-one "friend of court" briefs have been filed by groups on both sides of the case. (In 2008, when the justices directly confronted the Second Amendment for the first time, 67 such briefs were filed.)
    The court's decision in Heller, which reinforced the popular notion in American culture of an individual right to bear arms, was decided on an ideologically split vote that has become a defining feature of the current bench under Chief Justice John Roberts.
    About the time that case was argued, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll showed that nearly three out of four Americans believed the Second Amendment covered an individual right to own a firearm.
    Justice Antonin Scalia wrote for the majority and was joined by fellow conservatives Roberts, Anthony Kennedy, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito. Liberals John Paul Stevens, David Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer dissented.
    Justice Sonia Sotomayor succeeded Souter in 2009. Earlier that year, Sotomayor, a judge on the New York-based U.S. appeals court, had been part of a three-judge panel that found the Second Amendment did not apply to the states.
    That decision, which rejected a challenge to a New York ban on certain weapons used in martial arts, provoked some gun groups, including the NRA, to protest her high-court nomination.
    When she testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee last July, Sotomayor observed that the Supreme Court had left open in Heller the question of whether the Second Amendment covers the states and said that issue needed to be resolved before appeals courts weighed in.
    She said her panel decided the martial-arts case on the basis of established high-court precedent and that she had a "completely open mind" on whether the Supreme Court should extend the Second Amendment to the states.
    On Chicago's dicey far South Side, McDonald contends people in cities beyond Washington should have the same Second Amendment protections as people in the nation's capital.
    "Why should we have to suffer with all the laws passed down by the states and the cities," he says, "while the people who are doing all this (violence) are getting guns and the police can't stop them?"
    Hurley's Gold
     

    Freedom1911

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    I don't understand where the Libtards get off questioning the Second Amendment. It is what it is and it says what it says.

    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    The Militia was then and is still to this day according to the hdr_mw_logo_area_.jpg as follows.
    One entry found.

    Main Entry: mi·li·tia
    Pronunciation: \mə-ˈli-shə\
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Latin, military service, from milit-, miles
    Date: 1625
    1 a : a part of the organized armed forces of a country liable to call only in emergency b : a body of citizens organized for military service
    2 : the whole body of able-bodied male citizens declared by law as being subject to call to military service
    As it was planned, If the country had to fight. the whole body of able-bodied male citizens would pick up THEIR arms and ammo and report for duty.
    The Bill of Rights by way of the Second Amendment made it possible back then as well as today to protect our country from the attack of a tyranny government from outside, or from within.
    Giving the CITIZENS of this Country the ability and the Constitutional RIGHT to revolt, rebel, to fight against an established government right here in the US when that Government put itself above and before the Constitution and before the People that they serve.


    The kind of Government we have now. Our fight right now is at the polls. And with the Blessings of GOD that will be as far as the fight needs to go.

    Post edited for errors.
     

    SIG_Fiend

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    Yeah, the whole intent behind the 2A was specifically FOR handguns and military style arms like what the military was using. The whole idea being that the average citizen, who is part of the Militia would be able to be armed just as well as the soldier and provide in defense of the country if necessary.
     

    jgedmond

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    If guns bans work so well, why is Chicago a cesspool of gun violence? These laws obviously do not work and any unbiased observer can see that. The whole argument is idiotic, criminals do not obey laws - duh!
     

    cowboy45

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    Yeah, the whole intent behind the 2A was specifically FOR handguns and military style arms like what the military was using. The whole idea being that the average citizen, who is part of the Militia would be able to be armed just as well as the soldier and provide in defense of the country if necessary

    .[/QUO
    Handguns were not very common then. Military style firearms were pretty much what the civilian populace were using.

    The 2A was written to keep a tyrannical government from disarming and enslaving the people of a free world.
     

    Freedom1911

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    Yeah, the whole intent behind the 2A was specifically FOR handguns and military style arms like what the military was using. The whole idea being that the average citizen, who is part of the Militia would be able to be armed just as well as the soldier and provide in defense of the country if necessary.


    The whole idea being that the average citizen, who is part of the Militia would be able to be armed just as well as the enemy soldier and provide in defense of the country if necessary.
    Post correction. Error pointed out by APatriot.
     

    APatriot

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    I don't understand where the Libtards get off questioning the Second Amendment. It is what it is and it says what it says.

    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    At the time of the signing of the Constitution and the addition of the first Ten Amendments to it in the form of the Bill of Rights. There was no Army, Navy or Marines in the US it was the Militia.

    U.S. Marine Corps was born Nov 1775 and called the Continental Marines. The U.S. Constitution was signed Sept 1787.

    There was a Marine Corps before there was a Constitution. I will only speak for The Marines since "I be one".
     

    swsmailman

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    The whole misconception of Gun Bans are the answer to the gang bangers, drug dealers and daily drive by's is one that is forced down people's throat by the media and those people have no clue about the law and what it really does. It takes away guns from law abiding citizens and makes it to where they cannot protect themselves and their property. Criminals are called criminals for a reason because they don't care about the law. To me a ban that involves weapons only hurts the good people and law abiding citizens.
     

    Texan2

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    At the time of the signing of the Constitution and the addition of the first Ten Amendments to it in the form of the Bill of Rights. There was no Army, Navy or Marines in the US it was the Militia. The Militia was then and is still to this day according to the View attachment 2791 as follows.
    As it was planned, If the country had to fight. the whole body of able-bodied male citizens would pick up THEIR arms and ammo and report for duty.
    The Bill of Rights by way of the Second Amendment made it possible back then as well as today to protect our country from the attack of a tyranny government from outside, or from within.
    US military was around WAY before the constitution. US Navy was born Oct. 13th, 1775, 12 years before the Constitution....US Army born June 14th, 1775 12 years before the Constitution. Remember that the USA was governed by the Articles of Confederation for about a dozen years before the Constitution was ratified.
    That having been said I agree with the point that you were trying to make.
     

    Freedom1911

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    No problem, I learned something today with this.
    I honestly thought my posts were correct. But I appreciate the corrections.
    I was just trying to let everyone know that I was aware of the correction.

    Tough bunch it may be, but it is one of the best bunches on the gun forum circuit.
    Would be proud if my forum eventually attracted a group as expansive and knowledgeable as this.
    Life is a never ending class room. And if we are lucky we learn something new every day.
    I hit the forums frequently in an effort to learn. So today was one of those days. : )

    Cheers:patriot:
     

    SIG_Fiend

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    I propose, instead of a stimulus check, every tax paying adult should receive a stimulus gift of their very own M4A3. Now THAT would be change you could believe in. ;)
     

    TexasFats

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    If is is full-auto capable, I am going to need a stimulus check to pay for the ammo! Even if it only fires three-shot bursts, I could still burn a lot of powder. Heck, I can barely afford to feed by SR 556 and my .45 Kimbers.
     
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