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How Many LEOs Would Enforce Unconstitutional Laws?

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  • Hoji

    Bowling-Pin Commando
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    How many of you would enforce a law if say Texas passed a law that any religion other than Christianity was a crime. Would you go into mosques and synagogues and make arrests.

    If you answered no to this , do you enforce bad gun laws?


    Flame suit on.
    ARJ Defense ad
     

    txinvestigator

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    How many of you would enforce a law if say Texas passed a law that any religion other than Christianity was a crime. Would you go into mosques and synagogues and make arrests.

    If you answered no to this , do you enforce bad gun laws?


    Flame suit on.


    What if questions, while interesting philosophical discussion, are rarely productive. Your scenario is just like asking if aliens (the space kind) arrived without visas would ICE arrest them. It just isn't going to happen; the aliens arriving.

    Your lead in about "bad gun laws" is a trap. :D The 2nd has just been ruled on, and when reading the opinion it is clear that there will have to be many more rulings before anything close to concrete is decided. Until then, the police enforce the current gun laws, regardless of whether he/she thinks it is "bad law".

    That's all I'll have to say about this, but I assume it will be an interesting thread.
     

    htxred

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    when LEOs start to mix in their own personal beliefs and opinions with their job, things tend to start to get a bit messy. its their job to enforce the law, not what they feel the law should translate to. i reckin some will leave their LEO positions and find work else where.
     

    Texas1911

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    I feel it will be a moral dilemma for some LEOs. LEOs, for the far majority, are honest, moral people so naturally any law along the lines of religion may cause a stir. As far as guns, well ... I'm sure LEOs have a greater insensitivity towards them unless they happen to be a hobbiest. I think far more would follow orders with an unconstitutional gun law than one addressing the issue of religion.
     

    mac79912

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    There would not be any need for LEOs as there would be a uprising from the people. The National guard would have there hands full from the riots and killings resulting from an action like this.There would definitely be consequences against those who enforced a police action like this.Maybe even a civil war could start over an issue as touchy as religion.
     

    Hoji

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    What if questions, while interesting philosophical discussion, are rarely productive. Your scenario is just like asking if aliens (the space kind) arrived without visas would ICE arrest them. It just isn't going to happen; the aliens arriving.

    Your lead in about "bad gun laws" is a trap. :D The 2nd has just been ruled on, and when reading the opinion it is clear that there will have to be many more rulings before anything close to concrete is decided. Until then, the police enforce the current gun laws, regardless of whether he/she thinks it is "bad law".

    That's all I'll have to say about this, but I assume it will be an interesting thread.

    House bill 823 in in effect in Texas as well, but in Harris County the rule is still arrest unless they have a CHL.:mad: There are several people awaiting trial because LEOs are enforcing an illegal order from the DA.
     

    txinvestigator

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    House bill 823 in in effect in Texas as well, but in Harris County the rule is still arrest unless they have a CHL.:mad: There are several people awaiting trial because LEOs are enforcing an illegal order from the DA.

    ***sigh*** Negative. In 2005, when the traveling presumption was created to make it legal for a law abiding citizen to carry in his car, The Houston DA, Chuck Rosenthal, said he believed arrested were still authorized and the courts would determine if the person met the presumption.

    Two things have happened since, Rosenthal is no longer in office after a scandal, and the legislators removed the traveling presumption in PC 46.15 and made it clear that under PC 46.02, it is not UCW for a law abiding citizen to carry in his vehicle.

    The Harris DA has simply pronounced that they would follow the law.

    Besides, DA cannot order the police to make arrests.
     

    Hoji

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    Besides, DA cannot order the police to make arrests.


    Keep on believing that. I am not going to argue with you any more. Everytime I post something you pipe in with your psuedowisdom and then you get corrected. I , and other licensed firearm instructors are really just tired of your juvenile antics. Really tired.

    I have forgotten the #1 rule of arguing on the internet. It is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you are still retarded.

    Good day.
     

    txinvestigator

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    Keep on believing that. I am not going to argue with you any more. Everytime I post something you pipe in with your psuedowisdom and then you get corrected. I , and other licensed firearm instructors are really just tired of your juvenile antics. Really tired.

    I have forgotten the #1 rule of arguing on the internet. It is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you are still retarded.

    Good day.

    Apparantely you don't have enough confidence in yourself to make the statement without adding the "me and others" comments. Who are these others? BTW, I am a "licensed firearms instructor" too. I imagine you are no more impressed than I am that you are.

    I and MANY others are growing tired of the "government is our enemy" rantings of radicals like you on here.

    Please feel free to "correct" me again, bucko.

    How on earth can a DA order a LE to do anything?
     

    Hoji

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    They can't. You know it, I know it, and everyone else does. :p

    The trolls are growing 'round these parts.

    Really? The Sheriff is the highest ranking elected LEO in the county.{ this is why you need their signature for NFA stuff] The DA would be very close to that terms of political capitol. Police chiefs are generally appointed, and serve at the leisure of the pol. that appointed them. The DA can make "suggestions" on how he/she wants enforcement handled. The "suggestions" are almost always taken as going against a high ranking political could cost you your job, and to the indvidual officer going against your superiors is insubornation.


    But hey, I don't know anything. You guy's "win" the argument.:cool:
     

    juwaba98

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    They are saying that legally the DA cannot hand out orders to the LE rank and file. If the ELECTED Sherriff allows himself to be influenced by the DA then you have already gotten what you paid for by allowing a man/woman with questionable ethics to be elected. The way the system is supposed to work is simple. LE arrests (read does all the real work) and then the DA's office becomes involved to prosecute (read attention grab). The DA does not have the standing to give orders to LE period. If he/she makes suggestions that are followed by LEO's, they are likely the few and far between with a damaged moral compass who would arrest you for anything they please regardless of following orders or just out there playing God. That is what needs to be worried about not whether or not good LEO's will obey an unlawful order. Compare it to having a boss who is a blowhard (even though the DA isn't in the same capacity as a boss to LE), you let the boss come in and give their speeches, pep talks or ass chewings and then let them go on. Once they have left you to yourselves you simply go back to business as usual and do your job. Here I am getting long winded, guess I'll leave it at that.


    And fellas, I don't think it's a case of trolling although the OP was worded to bring on a topic in which one can come in at the end with a surprising bit of profound knowledge and trap all the previous statements and thus stir the pot. Nah, nevermind, does sound like trolling. Perhaps it was a one time incident caused by media induced misconceptions. We'll hope for that, I'd hate to think we already have trolls among us at such a tender young age.
     

    Kerbouchard

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    It depends on the situation. In a localized 'state of emergency' I believe many LEO's would enforce unconstitutional laws as was proved in N.O. If they believe it is a temporary situation they are much more likely to enforce the bad orders.

    If, on the other hand, it was such a large break from Democracy, as in, say an Executive Order that was passed down that was completely unconstitutional, I believe there would be a large number of departments that would not enforce it.

    It really comes down to how it is handed down. The 'its an emergency measure and only temporary' will allow a lot more atrocities to take place then a bad order during normal conditions.

    For instance if there was a dirty bomb/terrorist attack, you would see a lot of civil liberties go out the window, and I believe most of those in authority would follow their orders.

    The small steps are much more likely to be enforced than large sweeping changes in a normal situation. We, as Americans, and humans resist drastic change. We always have and are much more likely to stand up to something like that. Small changes that take away liberties little by little are much more likely to get pushed through.

    On the other hand, during a National Emergency, large drastic changes are more likely to be allowed and enforced for the 'public good'.

    Just my .02.
     

    DrBart2

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    Your scenario is just like asking if aliens (the space kind) arrived without visas would ICE arrest them. It just isn't going to happen; the aliens arriving.

    LOL, after reading this entire thread, with all the speculation and arguments, all I can think of is how difficult it would be to deport space aliens! LOL

    I watch present and past actions of government officials, National Guard, and LEOs. As citizens of this state and country, we just need to make sure we have the proper laws in place. Like making it unlawful for a mayor or governor to disarm the general public just because...
    If the law states that a mayor cannot have the law-abiding public disarmed, then I highly doubt that the National Guard or LEO's will go against the law, even if the Mayor demands them to do so.

    I had a friend once say--"what do you think our local police would do if one of our army generals took over and became a dictator of our country?" What?????? I thought about it for a moment and told him that our LEOs would take all our children out and shoot them. He said that I was being ridiculous. I told him that I was just joining in!
    "What if" questions typically just start arguments.
     

    Hoji

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    I watch present and past actions of government officials, National Guard, and LEOs. As citizens of this state and country, we just need to make sure we have the proper laws in place. Like making it unlawful for a mayor or governor to disarm the general public just because...
    If the law states that a mayor cannot have the law-abiding public disarmed, then I highly doubt that the National Guard or LEO's will go against the law, even if the Mayor demands them to do so.


    Just in case you forgot, there is already a law in place.
    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,
    the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
     

    SIG_Fiend

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    Just in case you forgot, there is already a law in place.
    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,
    the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


    Unfortunately, an increasing number of politicians are completely ignoring the law or simply rewriting it to suit their needs, and are ignoring the plain and clear words in the Constitution (and not just with the 2nd amendment either). The worst part is no one is punishing them for it so they have no fear of continuing to do so. Simple words just aren't enough these days. Unfortunately because of all of this, in a few decades, half century, century, whatever they may force the American public into a corner with such oppressive laws and regulations for every aspect of our lives, bans of a wide range of things (music, movies, guns, etc etc)......basically the corrupt politicians heading down this path may force the American public to fight back with force. We have enough legal and political tools available to us at the moment that, so far, force has not been necessary. I certainly hope it never becomes necessary as I horribly dislike the idea of fighting against other Americans caught up in the "machine".
     
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