I'm Innocent *BANG*

Bob Loblaw

Member
Feb 28, 2008
145
16
Buda, Tx
So I'm watching fox news. Joe Horn is being discussed, as is Texas. They mentioned a Texas law that allows someone who is innocent to... I'm just repeating what I heard on the news... SHOOT... at the arresting police officers :confused: It was a Judge who brought this up, that can't be wrong... but it can't be right. Anyone ever heard of this?
 

txinvestigator

TGT Addict
May 28, 2008
14,119
113
Ft Worth, TX
So I'm watching fox news. Joe Horn is being discussed, as is Texas. They mentioned a Texas law that allows someone who is innocent to... I'm just repeating what I heard on the news... SHOOT... at the arresting police officers :confused: It was a Judge who brought this up, that can't be wrong... but it can't be right. Anyone ever heard of this?
Read the laws concerning firearms. I recall it states that you have the right to defend yourself against law enforcement.

What the judge said was that in Texas, if a cop is arrresting you and you KNOW you are innocent you can shoot the cop.

He is either a ignorant turd, or a lying turd.

Here is the email I just sent Sheppard;

______________________________________________________________

Mr. Smith,

I am a proud Texan and have enjoyed watching you on Fox since Katrina. I listened with interest (on Sirius) just a while ago your discussion with a ‘”Judge” who made some interesting and remarkable statements about Texas laws and the Joe Horn case. I know you guys depend on the so called legal experts, but this guy just flat out lied to your listeners.

First, I will give you my background. I am a Texas Concealed Handgun License Instructor, as well as a Texas Department of Public Safety Private Security Bureau firearms instructor. I also hold a Peace Officer Instructor’s Certification. I am active in this area of the law in and around the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, and belong to several Associations relating to security and private citizen licensing. I am also a licensed plainclothes armed Bodyguard, and must stay current on Texas law.

The judge said that in Texas, if a police officer was trying to arrest you and you knew you were innocent you could shoot him. That is a lie. In fact, here is the law;

Texas Penal Code


9.31. Self-Defense.



(b) The use of force against another is not justified:


(2) to resist an arrest or search that the actor knows is being made by a peace officer, or by a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, even though the arrest or search is unlawful



You may see the law here; http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.31.00



Texas law allows deadly force to protect your property or that of another with deadly force. It also allows the use of deadly force to stop another who is fleeing immediately after committing after a burglary from escaping with property.

Relevant sections of Texas Penal Code


9.42. Deadly Force to Protect Property.


A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:


(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or

(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and

(3) he reasonably believes that:

(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or

(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.



9.43. Protection of Third Person's Property.


A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:

(1)the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property



A link so you can see the non-edited versions to show I did not edit out parts to suit my point; http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.41.00
 

txinvestigator

TGT Addict
May 28, 2008
14,119
113
Ft Worth, TX
rest of the letter;

_______________________________________________________________

Statements were also made in the story that he shot the two illegal alien criminals in the back while running away. I have read conflicting reports about this, and some repots have indicated that at least one of the men came onto Mr. Horn’s property towards him with a crow bar. In that case, he was protecting himself. I don’t know what evidence was presented to the Grand Jury, and neither does the Judge you interviewed. I resent the statements made by the judge that the DA convinced the Grand Jury to let Mr. Horn get away with a crime, just so he could be re-elected. The Grand Jury did not believe probable cause existed for Mr. Horn to be charged with ANY crime.

If you want to have a discussion about the fairness or correctness of Texas law, that would be interesting and enjoyable. However, to malign this prosecutor, the Grand Jury and Mr. Horn is wrong, and in no way, “Fair and Balanced”.


If I can answer any questions or offer more insight I would be happy to.



My Name
 

SIG_Fiend

Administrator
TGT Supporter
Admin
Feb 21, 2008
7,128
48
Austin, TX
Even if you are being arrested and feel the arrest isn't warranted, is an illegal arrest, etc it is still unlawful to resist. Basically, it will have to be sorted out with a lawyer after the fact from what I understand. The only instance I can think of where it could ever be deemed legal to shoot at an officer is if for some reason you just happen to be confronted with that one nutjob with a badge that managed to sneak his way through the academy, and if he is threatening you with imminent death. A majority of officers are good people, so the very few nutjobs like that out there are few and far between. Even if that was the case, the situation is going to be very bad regardless.
 

Bob Loblaw

Member
Feb 28, 2008
145
16
Buda, Tx
rest of the letter;
Thanks for clearing that up. Me thinks I put too much weight into what I hear on the news. I was under the impression that the direction of the gunshot wounds were unclear. But, after that report I just assumed I was being told the truth. Pretty scary that the news will lie so blatantly. Anyways, thanks again.
 

DoubleActionCHL

Well-Known
Jun 23, 2008
1,572
36
Spring, Texas
I think they may have been referring to TPC Section 9.31(c)

(c) The use of force to resist an arrest or search is
justified:

(1) if, before the actor offers any resistance, the
peace officer (or person acting at his direction) uses or attempts
to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest or search;
and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably
believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself
against the peace officer's (or other person's) use or attempted use
of greater force than necessary.


It's not a fight you're likely to win.
 

Thumper_6119

Member
Jun 19, 2008
107
16
Amarillo, Texas
It's not a fight you're likely to win.
That's no lie. That "Necessary" part is one heck of a relative term. Without a 3rd party video of the ENTIRE incident, I think a person would be screwed. (Heck, even with the video I think it would be hard to win). Even if a person did win, what would life be like after that for them in regards to their local LEO's? Whether if be resistance with or without a firearm.
 

txinvestigator

TGT Addict
May 28, 2008
14,119
113
Ft Worth, TX
I think they may have been referring to TPC Section 9.31(c)

(c) The use of force to resist an arrest or search is
justified:
(1) if, before the actor offers any resistance, the
peace officer (or person acting at his direction) uses or attempts
to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest or search;
and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably
believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself
against the peace officer's (or other person's) use or attempted use
of greater force than necessary.

It's not a fight you're likely to win.
No, he was not referring to that. I heard the "Judge" and he clearly said that in Texas, if a cop is trying to arrest you and you KNOW you are innocent then you can shoot the cop. He aid it just like that. He was trying to show what a cowboy, wild west way of thinnking and how messed up our use of force laws are.

He then went on to say the Grand Jury will do whatever the DA wants, and the DA is running for re-election so they let this guy get away with murder.



Regarding the section you quoted, remember if you even pull away, you have used force. ;)
 

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