Interesting Discussion with a Game Warden Today

[Medic218]

OK, I learned something new today. Some of you may already be aware of this but it was news to me.

Recently a co-worker told me I could use his dads land to hunt on. He told me I could have free run of the place as long as I didn't disrespect the property and left it as I found it. Easy enough. I'm in!!!

Two weeks ago I drop some corn and set up a couple cams.
I go back today and find that one of my cams has been replaced with a business card from the local Game Warder saying to call him if I would like my cam back. WTF?? No biggie though.

I called him, we had a short chat and then set up a place to meet to get my cam back.

After we met, while we were talking the normal line of questioning you would expect took place.

He informed me that the guy who leases the property to harvest hay had called him when he found my cams.
He stated that the guy had been having problems with trespassers out there and thats why he called the Game Warden.

When I told him who granted me permission and what business I had out there he informed me that the property owners son has no legal wright to grant me access to the property since it is on lease.
He said that the only people that can allow me out there are the actual property owner and the guy who leases the pastures for hay.
If I wanted to continue to use the property, since it is currently on lease, I had to get with my buddies dad and draw up paperwork allowing me on the lease.
Makes sense I suppose, it was just news to me since my buddy said his dad said it was ok. I took him for his word assuming there wouldn't be any hiccups.

When I told my buddy about all this he was pissed!
I guess he thought he had more pull in the situation than he actually did since it his dads land and they all dove hunt and what not out there.
I tried to explain it all to him but he wasn't particularly receptive.
He told me I could go back down there and where to go to avoid any future issues. I graciously declined.
I had already been made aware by a fella with a gun and a badge and I'm not about to go side stepping him because my buddy said it was ok.
I told him the only way I'd go back down there is if he and his dad wanted to join me for a hunt.

Any input?

Also, the Game Warden couldn't have been any more professional, courteous and understanding to my dilemma.

 

[Dawico]

Sounds fair enough to me. The leasee has a right to be concerned about hunters out there, especially if he hadn't been told you may hunt there. He may not care if you contact him, but for all he knows you may be a poacher. If the leasee called your friends father and he didn't even know about you setting up there, it would be cause for concern. It sounds like maybe your buddy didn't let his father know about the deal either.

Sooooooooooo, did you get your camera back?

 

[Texan2]

Whats the question?

 

[Medic218]

Sounds fair enough to me. The leasee has a right to be concerned about hunters out there, especially if he hadn't been told you may hunt there. He may not care if you contact him, but for all he knows you may be a poacher. If the leasee called your friends father and he didn't even know about you setting up there, it would be cause for concern. It sounds like maybe your buddy didn't let his father know about the deal either.

Sooooooooooo, did you get your camera back?

That what I was thinking, that my buddy was the only one that knew I was going out there.....
I don't know if the lessee would even care if I was out there as long as he was made aware of my presence in the first place.
I'm going to keep working on this because this place was great!
And yes, I did get it back.

Whats the question?

No question, just an account of what took place so others can learn from it.
Just cause daddy owns 1,600 acres doesn't mean you can tell your buddies they can go hunt out there.

 

[Texasjack]

I've had dealings with several game wardens over the years and the level of professionalism was always the highest.

It's not the son's property, so he cannot give you permission for anything. I would think that the owner could give you permission without drawing up a contract, since the guy who is leasing is specifically limited to hay. There are some counties (Harris, that I know of) in which you are required to have written permission from the landowner to hunt.

The game warden is trying to make sure that there is no misunderstanding between parties. (Sometimes those turn ugly.)

If the father doesn't object to you hunting, then it should be no big deal for him to draw up a paper saying so. In fact, if I was the landowner, I'd want such a paper so it would help in holding you responsible for not damaging the property or doing stuff you weren't supposed to do. Doesn't hurt for you to have a simple contract so that he can't lease it out from under you.

People get all weirded out when they think about having to draw up an agreement, but you never know what could happen to screw up your arrangement. It's always best to have things in writing.

 

[Texan2]

No question, just an account of what too place so others can learn from it.
Just cause daddy owns 1,600 acres doesn't mean you can tell your buddies they can go hunt out there.

That appears to be the case.

I was just making sure there wasnt a question in there that I was missing.

 

[Medic218]

I'd be ok with that. We'll see what develops.

 

[Dawico]

You should also let the leasee know what is up if you will be going out there more.

 

[Bithabus]

No question, just an account of what took place so others can learn from it.
Just cause daddy owns 1,600 acres doesn't mean you can tell your buddies they can go hunt out there.

That should be obvious. If people with guns showed up on land I was leasing, I would not be pleased.

 

[TheDan]

If you had a verbal agreement with the father then that should be enough. I don't see why you'd need anything on paper. Paper does make "proof" easier, tho. The son can't give you verbal ok since he doesn't actually own the land, however. Also, your agreement with the father could potentially be in violation of the rancher's lease, but that's between him and the rancher.

 

[Bultx1215]

As a former landowner that leased hay rights, IMO, the guy messed up by calling the GW. He should have first contacted the land owner to see if anyone should have been there or not. Hay rights gives him rights to just that...hay, nothing else unless it was spelled out in the contract. I had one guy read me the riot act because I was on my own land while he was running hay....needless to say, he was told to finish his run and not come back. Some get the big head and think they own the place when in reality, they only own the hay rights for the contract period.

In reality, there are several at faults here....son should have checked with dad first and hay guy should have checked with "dad" first so all are in the loop. IMO, the GW should have never been called.

 

[Txmark]

I'm by NO means a lawyer, that being said, isn't the adult son an "agent of the owner"? When we used to have a rice farm near Beaumont I gave permission to various people to hunt and fish, with no problems. And we had people who "leased" some our land for cattle, hay, or rice , thats all their authority was for and nothing else.

 

[Renegade]

When I told him who granted me permission and what business I had out there he informed me that the property owners son has no legal wright to grant me access to the property since it is on lease.
He said that the only people that can allow me out there are the actual property owner and the guy who leases the pastures for hay.

1) Game Warden took property he was not authorized to take.

2) You do not need a lease to hunt on property, but in general you should have the owner's permission, not someone in his family.

3) i would do what the GW wants, get it in writing, he will not hassle you again.

 

[txinvestigator]

He is certainly authorized to seize property left by a trespasser, or could be evidence of a crime. The person in charge of the land took the GW there.

 

[txinvestigator]

I'm by NO means a lawyer, that being said, isn't the adult son an "agent of the owner"?

generally no. I cannot give you authorization to go go into my father's backyard.

 

[Renegade]

He is certainly authorized to seize property left by a trespasser, or could be evidence of a crime. The person in charge of the land took the GW there.

There was no evidence of a trespasser. There was no evidence of a crime. Absent a warrant, he should not be seizing property.

I have a farm. I lease some things out. If my property disappeared like that I would not be happy. Of course, the people I lease know to call me first if they see anything amiss on MY property.

A simple call to the property owner could have avoided this whole situation.

 

[txinvestigator]

There was no evidence of a trespasser. There was no evidence of a crime.

yes, there was.

I have a farm. I lease some things out. If my property disappeared like that I would not be happy..

he was not leasing the property.

 

[Renegade]

yes, there was. .

A game cam on property is not evidence of anything, absent the owner stating it is not authorized to be there. These things are common in rural areas. We do not even know if 30.05 No Trespassing notice was on the property. Perhaps the property is unregulated in that respect. This is common too if the property is for hay production and not for containing livestock.

On my property game cams are setup to CATCH trespassers, and are part of my security system. An LEO coming onto my property and dismantling my security system, would be a Barney Fife move. Fortunately for me, my lease holders and LEOs in my area are a lot smarter than the ones the OP encountered.

he was not leasing the property.

Context I meant was the person the property owner leases to for ag purpose calls the GW who takes stuff off my property. Which is what seems to have happened here.

 

[txinvestigator]

A game cam on property is not evidence of anything, absent the owner stating it is not authorized to be there.

BINGO. WHo do you think called the Game warden?

Fortunately for me, my lease holders and LEOs in my area are a lot smarter than the ones the OP encountered.

Stop it. Again who do you think called the Game Warden? Reading comprehension is important. Stop denigrating the GW.

Context I meant was the person the property owner leases to for ag purpose calls the GW who takes stuff off my property. Which is what seems to have happened here.

IT IS NOT THE OPs PROPERTY. The owners son told the OP he could hunt there. Apparantly, from READING the OP, the SON did not have authorization to allow the OP on the property.

 

[Renegade]

BINGO. WHo do you think called the Game warden?

Stop it. Again who do you think called the Game Warden? Reading comprehension is important. Stop denigrating the GW.

I do not have to think about it, I can read it: -
He informed me that the guy who leases the property to harvest hay had called him when he found my cams.

It appears the actual property owner was never consulted. Thus both the hay baler and the GW erred. The hay baler should have called the property owner, and absent that, the GW should have called him BEFORE removing any property. Neither the hay baler nor the GW were in a position to know if the GameCams were a problem or not.

Sorry but the GW was just plain wrong to remove property without a warrant, and without talking to the property owner first, though it is minor and he did it with good intent. He should know better.

Apparantly, from READING the OP, the SON did not have authorization to allow the OP on the property.

The son seems to think so, since even after hearing this story he specifically told the OP he could go back out there:

He told me I could go back down there and where to go to avoid any future issues. I graciously declined.

Seems to me the son is certain he has authorization to let people on the land. No surprise here, This is common in family owned farms, mine included. While my name/spouse is on the deed, if my mother/father/brother/sister/son/daughter/etc., say you can come out and place some GameCams, hunt, fish or take pictures of wildlife, etc., then you can.