Is this a handgun?

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by Vellcrow, May 2, 2009.

  1. Vellcrow

    Vellcrow Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    According to the BATF, the Mossberg 500 Cruiser pictured above, is a handgun and cannot be sold to people under 21 years of age.

    When did this change take affect?
     


  2. txinvestigator

    txinvestigator TGT Addict

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    WHere does the BATFE say that?
     
  3. Vellcrow

    Vellcrow Active Member

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    I was reorganizing our overstock room at Red's today, and noticed that all the Mossberg shotgun boxes that contained pistol grip-only shotguns had stickers saying "ATF has classified this as a handgun and cannot be sold to people under 21 years of age".

    When I asked one of our managers about it, he said that ATF did rule these as handguns since they cannot be fired from the shoulder.

    If you can find me the exact definition that would dispute this, I would appreciate it.

    Here is a thread on THR about a similar situation: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4376537

    On another site: http://forum.pafoa.org/rifles-42/47907-need-ask-few-qeustions-about-ak47-pistol-grip-mossberg.html
     
  4. Old Man of the Mountain

    Old Man of the Mountain Active Member

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    If the Illegal Criminal Conspiracy that is called the BATF has ruled that to be a pistol, then have they also dropped the 18" minimum barrel length?
     
  5. Vellcrow

    Vellcrow Active Member

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    THAT is exactly the question I want to ask the ATF. If it is ruled as a handgun, I can cut the barrel down as short as I want...

    Here is another thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-106559.html

    Here is a quote from another website:

    Shotguns with pistol grips and no
    shoulder stocks attached were restricted to
    persons 21 years of age or older if being sold by a
    Federal firearms licensee. This requirement is
    specified in 27 CFR § 178.99(b) and 18 U.S.C.
    922(b)(1), which states that if the firearm to
    be transferred is is other than a rifle or shotgun.


    Then the purchaser must be 21 years of age. The
    definition of a shotgun under the GCA [18 U.S.C.
    § 921(a)(5)] is a weapon ieintended to be fired
    from the shoulder.ld With the pistol grip in lieu of
    the shoulder stock, this weapon is not designed to
    be fired from the shoulder, and therefore is not a
    shotgun.

    AGE RESTRICTION REMINDER
    Licensees are reminded that certain commercially
    produced “shotguns” do not fall within the
    definition of shotgun under the GCA. Firearms
    such as the Mossberg Model 500 Camper,
    Persuader 500 and all other makes and models,
    which come equipped with a pistol grip in place
    of the butt stock, are not shotguns under the GCA.
    Therefore, they cannot be sold or delivered by a
    licensee to any person less than 21 years of age.
     
  6. kingofwylietx

    kingofwylietx Well-Known

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    I have the same question, if it is a pistol...then it can have a very short barrel? I wouldn't do it, but does that mean you can carry it concealed and have a 5" barrel?
     
  7. DCortez

    DCortez TGT Addict

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    5" stagecoach guns? That would ruin some days.
     
  8. txinvestigator

    txinvestigator TGT Addict

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    (5) The term “shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.

    Well lets look at that sections definition of "handgun"

    (29) The term “handgun” means—
    (A) a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand; and
    (B) any combination of parts from which a firearm described in subparagraph (A) can be assembled.

    I don't find in that section a definition of Pistol, only handgun. The Mossberg in question certainly is not a handgun.


    The law does not make that shotgun a handgun. However it IS Other than a rifle or shotgun; therefore it cannot be transferred to a person under 21. USC Title 18, 922(b)(1) states;
    (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed
    manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or
    deliver -
    (1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the
    licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than
    eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is
    other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or
    rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable
    cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age.

    Just because it is not a rifle or shotgun does not mean it is a handgun.

    So, the ATF has NOT determined that the Mossberg is a handgun. Whoever put that sticker on the box jumped to a conclusion; a bad one.
     
  9. M. Sage

    M. Sage TGT Addict

    Jan 21, 2009
    San Antonio
    txinvestigator is right: It's not a rifle or a shotgun. Federal law only allows transfer of rifles or shotguns to those under 21 (from a dealer, of course). But it's not a handgun.

    Unlike a handgun, you can put a stock on it and swap it back again all you want. And you can swap out the stock on your shotgun for a pistol grip like that without running into trouble because something like that isn't a handgun.
     
  10. DCortez

    DCortez TGT Addict

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    Had to be a clerical error or paper shuffling mistake.
     

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