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Is this the "Best Of Times" for Gun ownership in America??? (Poll)

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  • Is this the "Best Of Times" for American gun ownership???

    • We are in the best of times for gun ownership that we have ever had.

      Votes: 9 30.0%
    • The late 60s, 70s, and early 80s were better when the NFA list was not closed.

      Votes: 4 13.3%
    • Things were a lot better before the 1968 GCA, during the post war years.

      Votes: 5 16.7%
    • Prior to the 1930's

      Votes: 4 13.3%
    • This is the worst time ever for gun owners, we are under attack from all sides.

      Votes: 6 20.0%
    • Other, please explain in a posting.

      Votes: 2 6.7%

    • Total voters
      30

    Acera

    TGT Addict
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    6   0   0
    Jan 17, 2011
    7,596
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    Republic of Texas
    I want to propose the thesis that we are currently living in the best of times for gun ownership in America. As a product of the 60's, I have seen some real positive changes, along with some negative changes.

    Currently in the US, (just a few to spark conversation)
    Pro:
    a) There is a variety of long guns, hand guns and shotguns like we have never seen.
    b) CHL permits are common and easy to acquire in just about every state and repressive gun laws are being brought down.
    c) Suppressors, SBRs, AOWs, etc are becoming extremely common and easy to purchase.
    d) 1911s, ARs, AKs, etc. are available from record numbers of manufacturers and in almost limitless configurations.
    e) Prices have fallen to below pre-bho scare levels on many things.
    f) Polymer framed guns, high capacity magazines.
    g) Ammunition: types, caliber, performance, manufacturers, etc. never before this good.
    h) Optics and Electronics: never before this good.
    i) More competitors in the market making quality arms and accessories.
    j) Parts interchangeability.

    Con:
    a) Gun ownership as a percentage of the population has decreased.
    b) Tolerance of guns has diminished.
    c) No new machine guns.
    d) Strong limits on the importation of foreign arms.
    e) Places to purchase firearms has dropped out of most of the mainstream retail establishments.
    f) "Gun Free Zones", background check, pending govt. legislation, etc.
    g) Hunting culture continues to decline.

    The late 60s, 70s, and early 80s.

    Pro:
    a) You could buy a gun at just about every Sears, JC Penny, Target, Woolworth, Western Auto, K-Mart, Montgomery Wards, most hardware stores, etc.
    b) Military surplus rifles from all over the world were available, cheap, and could be bought just about everywhere. (Nobody panicked when you took you newly purchased, fully exposed, M1 Garand out of the downtown Houston Woolworths during lunch hour.)
    c) Gun culture accepted as part of the American way of life. (No issues with a high school student having a rifle in his truck window during hunting season on school grounds in many parts of the country.) Less general public panic at the sight of a gun.
    d) Cheap military surplus ammo widely available.
    e) Newly manufactured machine guns were available to the public.
    f) Quality gunsmiths were widely available.

    Con:
    a) If you wanted a new 1911 or AR, Colt was the best choice--very few others made these guns, and they only had a couple of models. Try finding a AK.
    b) Foreign branded handguns had not made the in roads into the US that they have now.
    c) Revolvers were the only reliable handguns that the majority of experts recommended.
    d) Hard to get a CHL anywhere.
    e) Limited variety of choices in any class of firearm you wanted.
    f) Technically not as advanced guns, optics, rangefinders, binos, parts, etc.
    g) Federal Requirement to log ammunition purchases. (Thanks Roger4314, I forgot about that one.)

    Before the GCA and the 1960s.


    Pro:
    a) Gun Culture a part of the general population.
    b) Strong shooting sports culture.
    c) Could easily buy a gun mail order from a catalog.
    d) Many of the same things as in the 60-80's.

    Con:
    a) Lack of variety and technical sophistication.
    b) Fewer high power cartridges in all fields.
    c) Stagnated gun development.

    Prior to the 1930's

    Pro:
    a) Gun rights not infringed. Any American could own any arms, regardless of their technical sophistication, size or purpose.

    Con:
    a) Not a lot of choices.
    b) Expensive for the times.





    What do you think?
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    Angered_Kabar

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    Jan 17, 2011
    1,096
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    Kansas City :(
    Well I can't really say from experience what the best of times was, I only got into guns after 2004 and was born in the late 80s.

    Going to have to disagree with prices dropping below the pre election scare level but they are almost there.

    I think the new options available now are great, but there just aren't anywhere near as many cool surplus guns on the market as there were a few years ago. I'd really like to see US surplus ammo out in the market or even just available cheaply from the CMP. The import restrictions are stupid. Unfortunately it seems like quality is going downhill with a few manufacturers that have previously been highly regarded, and most manufacturers of certain firearm designs don't seem to care about quality control anymore. This is probably a result of trying to keep up with demand, and I do believe that in the past couple years more and more people are becoming gun owners.

    I'm gonna say that if you live in a state where you are allowed a little bit of freedom, this is a great time for gun ownership.
     

    Tejano Scott

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    1   0   0
    Jun 6, 2011
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    The Woodlands
    I am 36 and grew up around firearms all my life(my dad is an FFL holder and bought me a .357 on the day I was born). I will say it appears to me that costs have gone up at a rate that seems higher than the cost of living/inflation(I have no real numbers to back that up, just personal opinion). But it does seem that everyone and their dog now own NFA items. Tough question to answer. But since I don't have a time machine and I generally stay optomistic, I'll agree we are in the "Best Of Times".
     

    Acera

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    6   0   0
    Jan 17, 2011
    7,596
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    Republic of Texas
    Just some quick calculations to help put things in a bit more perspective. Using the advertisement that Oswald used to purchase his Carcano rifle, I am taking prices and comparing the to today prices. So comparing some items from 1963 to 2010 using a inflation calculator.

    M1 Garand, then $89.95, adjusted for inflation $633.81, CMP price today: $500: difference in favor of today's buyer. (-130)
    M1 Carbine, then $78.88, adjusted for inflation $555.56, CMP price earlier this year: $500, difference in favor of today's buyer.(-50)
    Marlin 336, then $69.88, adjusted for inflation $492.17, Able Ammo price today: $494.30, difference: negligible. (not really old ad gun had a scope) (+2)
    High Standard .22 Deringer, then $29.95, adjusted for inflation 210.94, GunsAmerica ad, $195, difference yesterdays buyer.(-15)

    Personal recollection:

    I bought one of the first heavy barreled, round forestocked ARs from Colt in the mid 1980's for almost $700 ($1400 in today's dollars). Today 30+ years later I can buy a better configured, comparable rifle for about that same price.

    About 2 years before GW Bush left office, the cheapest stripped AR lowers I could find were $80. Today you can find lowers for less than $60.

    Ruger MKII Target Bull Barrel: 1988 Shooter's Bible $225, adjusted for inflation $410, Ozark Guns price today, $345: advantage today's buyer.(-65)
    Ruger 10/22 Standard: 1988 Shooter's Bible $176, adjusted for inflation $320, Ruger Website MSRP $277: advantage today's buyer.(-43)
    Ruger Mini 14: 1988 Shooter's Bible $405, adjusted for inflation $736, Ruger Website MSRP $881: advantage yesterdays buyer.(+145)
    Beretta 92FS: 1988 Shooter's Bible $595, adjusted for inflation $1,082, Beretta USA Website MSRP $650: advantage today's buyer (-432)
    Remington BDL: 1988 Shooter's Bible $453, adjusted for inflation $823, Remington Website MSRP $985: advantage yesterdays buyer (+152)
    Colt Gold Cup SS: 1988 Shooter's Bible $749, adjusted for inflation $1,362, Colt Website MSRP $1,103: advantage today's buyer (-259)
    Colt Mustang: 1988 Shooter's Bible $349, adjusted for inflation $634, Colt Website MSRP $599: advantage today's buyer (-35)
    Remington 870 Wingmaster: 1988 Shooter's Bible $413, adjusted for inflation $751, Remington Website MSRP $785: advantage yesterday's buyer (+34)
    Remington 11-87:1988 Shooter's Bible $500, adjusted for inflation $909, Remington Website MSRP $845: advantage today's buyer (-64)
    Sig Sauer 220:1988 Shooter's Bible $575, adjusted for inflation $1,045, Sigsauer Website MSRP $993: advantage today's buyer (-53)

    While some guns have gone up, the ones I checked have actually gotten cheaper when adjusted for inflation.
     

    Vaquero

    Moving stuff to the gas prices thread.....
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    Apr 4, 2011
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    Dixie Land
    I can't confirm but it sounds about right. An original 1894 Winchester repeating rifle advertisement said you could own one for a $20.00 silver coin.
    That original rifle can be had today for that original coin. Precious metals have a way of keeping up with each other.
     

    majormadmax

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    Not only price, but you also have to consider the variety of guns available to us today. I don't think anyone living in the US in the 1960s could fathom actually owning an AK-47 or one of the many variants we have today.

    Still, it's sad that in this day and age, there are still states that don't recognize and respect the Constitutional rights of their citizens...
     

    Vaquero

    Moving stuff to the gas prices thread.....
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    Kiowa and Tonkowa shot buffalo for free. See how much a bow hunt for bison might cost you today.
    Just some food for thought.
     

    Dawico

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    Oct 15, 2009
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    I had to vote for the best times now. Now, 10 years ago during the AWB, not so much. Alot has changed, and most of it for the better, since then.

    The variety and pure amount of guns available for purchase today is staggering. Most of them can go home with you from the store.
     

    Renegade

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    Mar 5, 2008
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    Definitely the worst right now.

    Take any reasonable time period, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, etc., and it was better.

    The best balance of availability, cost, noregs, etc was probably pre-68.
     

    majormadmax

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    Was it better during the AWB?

    First thing I thought as well...there is no way in hell that things were better during the AWB!

    Things are not perfect now, and could definitely be better; but anyone who thinks this is the worst time ever to be a gun owner really doesn't have perspective on the past!
     

    Renegade

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    Was it better during the AWB?

    Well that was a 10 year span, so using the date when it was first enacted - 1994 I would say yes because:

    I could by an MP5 for $3500, an M16 for $2000, etc.

    I could get an FFL for $30, and make all the MGs and buy all the AWs and LEO-Only magazines I wanted.

    There was no Brady/NICS, or any of that other garbage.

    The AWB had no effect on me, all my guns were pre-ban and I had plenty of magazines. I never bought a AWB-compliant gun/mag.

    The AWB was good for me as I profited greatly from it.
     

    shortround

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    Anytime you can buy a gun of your choice, without a background check or any other infringement of the 2A is a good time.

    Be well.
     

    Mexican_Hippie

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    What makes it scary now is that so many are so willing to give up their rights. They literally can't handle freedom. So any "rights" we have now are much more fragile and can evaporate faster than ever before.
     
    Rating - 100%
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    Aug 17, 2010
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    Well that was a 10 year span, so using the date when it was first enacted - 1994 I would say yes because:

    I could by an MP5 for $3500, an M16 for $2000, etc.

    I could get an FFL for $30, and make all the MGs and buy all the AWs and LEO-Only magazines I wanted.

    There was no Brady/NICS, or any of that other garbage.

    The AWB had no effect on me, all my guns were pre-ban and I had plenty of magazines. I never bought a AWB-compliant gun/mag.

    The AWB was good for me as I profited greatly from it.

    That's good answer.
     

    ROGER4314

    Been Called "Flash" Since I Was A Kid!
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    Jul 11, 2009
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    East Houston
    I bought guns before the GCA of 1968. Those were good times! I remember seeing Ye Old Hunter ads in the magazines for rifles by mail order for as little as $12-$20 and I bought a Swiss 7.5 rifle for $19 and a Mauser for $30. The selection was poor- mostly Milsup rifles and pistols. Ammo was cheap, again mostly Milsup but I can remember shopping for a new Chevy truck with no options and std transmission for $2200 and passed on it because I didn't want to go into debt that much for a vehicle! That was a friggin' fortune!

    After 1968, things got rough. The GCA didn't cause much trouble with the 4473 form, it was what went with it. Shortly, all ammo was restricted and you had to sign a log book and show ID for anything including shotgun shells and even a box of .22's! That was rough! The worst part though, was the attitude of lawmakers. Gun owners were trashed every day and made to feel like criminals. After every gun related incident, Lawmakers jumped on the bandwagon trashing gun owners and calling for gun confiscation. We took a lot of crap as the NRA was attempting to get to 1 million members. I actually got OUT of the gun and shooting sports because I was tired of taking crap from every 2 bit politician! The idea that gun ownership was a Constitutional right was dumped on every day. It was only for official government force members to own guns. That was a rough time!

    I was in Chicago and had one of the first FOID (firearm owner ID) cards ever issued. The tide was running against us. Skokie, ILL passed an outright ban on firearms ownership and every day, more Chicken Shxt laws were being passed. A heavy blow was struck when the NRA had it's non profit tax exemption pulled. We were all under constant attack.

    The ammo registration passed away as it was so cumbersome that the government was choking on paper and vendors screamed non stop about it. Soon, shotgun shells then .22's then, finally, all ammo was exempted. Those were the worst of gun ownership times!

    Then the Assault Weapons Bill came up to be expired ten years later. NRA exceeded 2 million members and succeeded in running some mouthy politicians off and overturning some awful anti gun legislation. Then Supreme Court decisions affirmed that gun ownership was every citizen's right! Still, NRA membership grew and politicians thought twice before they opened their mouths to trash gun owners. They made a statement, NRA tuned them onto the radar and POOF! the guy was gone!

    Today, landmark court cases have been recorded to secure our rights. The CHL licenses are almost universal today while in the 60's, that would have been unthinkable! Politicians now keep their damned mouths shut and stay off of our backs because they know opening their mouths has become political suicide.
    Never in my life have I seen so many products, services, firearms, types of ammo, holsters, clothing or related products for the firearms past time!

    That progress can be traced directly to the growing strength of the NRA. When the NRA was small and weak, we took a ton of crap. When the NRA grew strong and membership boomed, politicians started to take cover. I credit the NRA with MOST of the progress we have made. The NRA formed the hub around which all of our pro gun efforts revolved. The NRA formed a nucleus and common ground for tens of thousands of individual pro gun groups and staunch individuals. The NRA was the "point man" of our efforts.

    Some of you guys may hesitate to send your yearly dues to the NRA. Gun ownership was Hell before the NRA became strong and it's the best investment I've ever made in my shooting sports involvement.

    How do I know about the progress we have made? In the words of the late Elmer Keith: "Hell, I was there!"

    EDIT NOTE: There are currently 4.3 million members of the NRA.

    Flash
     
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