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ISHOT1000 - 1000 Round Pistol Match April 26, 2008

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  • Double Naught Spy

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    In response to posts on the High Road on Littlemac's Glock vs. 1911 1000 round match that pertained to how the match could be run better if opened up to other platforms (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=310567), I am doing just that. The match is a bit different than Littlemac's (see http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthre...000+glock+1911), but has the goal of running guns for 1000 rounds in one day to see which guns perform well when shot by normal shooters with whatever sort of ammo they choose to shoot.

    The match is being called ISHOT1000 (Individual Semiauto Handgun Operations Testing of 1000 rounds).

    With the help of Littlemac and JohnKSa, I will host a 1000 round match at my place for up to 20 shooters. It will be Saturday, April 26, 2008. My place is located in Montague County, Texas, about 90 minutes north of DFW airport.

    Purpose?
    1. To see which makes/models run better over long runs of ammo.
    2. A Good time and maybe some bragging rights.

    This is a spinoff match from the fun Glock vs. 1911 1000 round grudge matches that were all about bragging rights to which platform was best. This match is expanded to include any legal semi-auto pistol. It will be interesting to see how various makes, models, and calibers perform. We'll post the results.

    The preliminary course of fire will be this...
    20 stages of 50 rounds per stage
    All 50 rounds are to be shot within a set time, say 90 seconds (TBD)
    Stage times are the total time allowed for the stage, including malfunctions.

    Every malfunction will be recorded for the full duration or until shooter quits, gun breaks, or the gun reaches 10 malfunctions in a given stage or 50 malfunctions total. In the interest of time as it is only a 1 day match

    No gun will be allowed to be serviced once the first shot is fired. So no cleaning, lubing, wiping, tightening, repairing, or otherwise adjusting, etc.

    Malfunctions will be noted as to when they occurred in the stage and described based on descriptive and NOT diagnostic parameters. For example, a hammer drop on a live round that does not detonate will be a FAIL TO FIRE and not be called a hard primer, light primer strike, or bad primer since a determination of the of these specific causes would require a detailed examination of all the components involved before the issue could be resolved. Similarly, a FAIL TO FEED issue won't be attributed to bad ammo, weak mag spring, or a weak recoil spring. And so on.

    The malfunction will be cleared by the shooter while being documented by a recordkeeper and the shooter will then continue the stage.

    Non-function-related problems will also be noted. For example, if someone has a grip work loose, sight insert fall out, but the gun can still be shot safely, we will note the problem and allow the gun to continue in the match.

    Requirements:
    1. Shooters much have state concealed carry permit or LEO certs. That is just the screening process since few of us will actually know each other before the match.
    2. 7 magazines or more for their gun and the mags must hold at least 7 rounds. Each stage will be shot starting with one in the chamber and then the 7 mags so that shooters all have a comparable number of magazine changes.
    3. 1000 rounds of ammo
    4. Semi auto pistol for the match
    5. Typical eye and ear protection

    Strongly suggested aspects:
    1. Stock pistols, ESPECIALLY PISTOLS THAT NEVER MALFUNCTION
    2. Factory ammo
    3. 8 magazines instead of 7

    Targets will be steel targets. There will be approximately 4 different setups shot 5 times each. Distances will be varied and some longer range shooting (50 yards or so) will take place. Targets will include both stationary and moving targets.

    Those who are interested may PM me for more information. Please include your email address.

    You are welcome to shoot any semi-auto platform in whatever caliber you want to shoot. There is no entry fee.
    Military Camp
     

    Texas1911

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    I know longevity seems to be the Glock's main owner focus, but I think you should include accuracy as well. Doesn't do much good if the gun shoots, but doesn't place the bullet where it was aimed.

    Oh, and welcome to the forum :) The match sounds like a blast!

    I'd take my HK USP, but I don't have enough ammo or magazines.
     

    chevydeerhunter

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    Sounts like a lot of fun. There's a reason the 1911's been in production for so long. Unfortunately, I'll be a slave to the grind on that weekend. Post the results when all is said and done.

    Welcome aboard!
     

    HighVelocity

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    I am seriously considering this after our pm exchanges on Glock Talk. If I can get away from work, that is.

    If I can, I'll probably shoot my wifes 9mm Springfield 1911 since the ammo costs would be less than my 45.


    Gary
     

    Double Naught Spy

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    I know longevity seems to be the Glock's main owner focus, but I think you should include accuracy as well. Doesn't do much good if the gun shoots, but doesn't place the bullet where it was aimed.

    Oh, and welcome to the forum :) The match sounds like a blast!

    I'd take my HK USP, but I don't have enough ammo or magazines.

    Well gosh, what can I say? Do you see a lot of semi autos that are so inaccurate that the shooter can't hit targets with them? I don't. I have yet to see a modern quality semi auto made in the last 25 years that would not be accurate enough. Typically, the non-target guns are the defensive guns and plinking guns and both types tend to be more accurate than most shooters are capable, certainly within the allotted time frame for the round counts. The target guns will be way more than accurate enough, too. So what inaccurate guns should be of concern to me?

    You mentioned your HK USP. Are they not very accurate guns? I thought they were more than adequate. There are a lot of shooters that don't have the marksmanship skills to get the full potential out of their guns, but that is a problem with the shooters (marksmanship), not the guns.

    This is a gun reliability match, as plain and simple as it can be with still using humans to fire the guns.

    I would be all for a 1 day, 1000 round, fast paced bullseye match for a dozen or more shooters that would test accuracy (not marksmanship) and reliability, but have yet to see a realistic plan for implementing such a match.

    If you have some realistically feasible insights, I would love to hear them.
     

    Littlemac

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    accuracy?

    I have held four of these matches and attended two others and the only accuracy issues that I am aware of is when the sight actually falls off or work loose.

    that however is part of the match to see how well a particular pistol holds up to beng pushed hard.

    :D
     

    Double Naught Spy

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    For the participants, information on exact time, location (directions), rules, etc. have been emailed. If you had contacted me previosly about being a participant and did not receive the mailing, please PM or email me.

    I look forward to seeing you on the 26th!!!
     

    htxred

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    didnt todd jarrett do this recently for para ordnance? took a out the box para ordnance SSP 1911 and ran 1000 rnds through it as fast as he could, did it in less then 16 minutes i think, i think it was a little over 10 minutes, used CMC 10rnd mags and had a team of people load em for him as he fired em off. gun got so hot, it was very difficult for him to finish.

    youtube clips here. http://youtube.com/user/DownRangeTV
     

    Double Naught Spy

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    ISHOT1000 Match Results

    On Saturday, 26 April 2008, the ISHOT1000 match was completed with a total of 14 shooters in Forestburg, Texas (north of DFW). First shots down range started about 8:45 am and the last shots were at 4:30 pm with a 1 hour break for lunch (450 rounds before lunch and 550 after). Mechanical problems causing guns to be unable to fire were considered to be malfunctions and were recorded. The goal here was not to diagnose the problem on the firing line, but to get a basic malfunction type identified and have the shooter clear the malfunction and continue to fire. Doing this quickly was important as stages were limited to 90 seconds for the 50 rounds required per stage (fired from 7 magazines). Every shooter was required to use 7 magazines per stage so that the numbers of magazine changes and slide lockbacks were kept standardized regardless of the platform being used.

    The 90 second time limit here is a salient point. It was imposed to help assure the match progressed at a steady pace and to make sure shooters shot their guns sufficiently fast to heat the guns repeatedly and to keep shootings from trying to “game” the match by drawing out their 50 rounds into a several minute slow fire exercise to keep their guns cool. Shooters were permitted to exceed the time limit when it was obvious they were not trying to play the clock (such as because of malfunctions). Most shooters completed their stages in 60-75 seconds and a couple of shooters seemed to finish in less than a minute on a regular basis.

    Overall, there was something of a bipolar distribution in performance. Eight of the guns suffered 3 malfunctions or less. The rest suffered 21-50 malfunctions. There were 3 guns that completed the COF of 1000 rounds with zero malfunctions. There were three guns that were DQ’d. No doubt that folks shooting reloads were at a severe performance disadvantage. The Glock 22 that DQ'd had a post mortem performed on it by the Glocksperts at the match and I believe it was determined that it had been way over lubed.

    Environmental Factors – Temperatures ranged from the mid 50s in the morning to mid 70s by the late afternoon, about 50% humidity, sunny sky, but the range was mostly shaded via tree canopy.

    All in all, the match turned out well. The participants came with good attitudes and had a good time. Strangely, after going the distance, few wanted to do any additional shooting even though most brought other guns for that purpose. While most of the attendees were from the DFW area, 1 shooter and guest came from the Austin area, 1 shooter from OKC, and 2 shooters made the 17 hour drive in from Phoenix for the match.

    ishtacka took some pics and they are posted at the following link.
    http://ishtacka.spaces.live.com/

    Issues of dirty guns...
    Part of the reason to have guns run with malfunctions was to see how the guns performed over the course of 1000 rounds. Interestingly, guns fouling over time or drying out didn't seem to be an issue. Guns that ran well tended to run well over the entire 1000 rounds with malfunctions occurring more early than late (so dirty gun syndrome didn't appear to be a big factor). Guns running more poorly tended to experience problems throughout the match.
     

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    Enron Exec

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    Behind 16 rnds of 9x19mm
    G19 FTW!
    Operator error FTL!
    Thanks for posting the results! I wish i could have participated in the test myself.

    I also have to agree, just about any decent, compact or larger, semi made in the past few decades is gonna be more accurate then the average user. I just reinforced my suspicion this weekend by plinking clay pigeons at 25-35 yards with a stock Glock 19. Had a couple of runs of consecutive 1 shot hits.
     

    Double Naught Spy

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    Too bad you didn't come out. We did a 6" moving target at 20, 50, and 75 yards that was great for one shot strings. Check photos 49-62 and you will see the target move in and out of the image as age_ranger fires at it from 50 yards. http://ishtacka.spaces.live.com/ He did land hits, just not in long strings - no body did long strings on that target.
     
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