Listener request, what would you do?

[gcmj45acp]

Title doesn't say much but, we had a robbery go wrong in Houston on Monday night at a local Denny's that ended with a restaurant patron and an employee getting shot with one ultimately dying of his injuries. I opined that it is yet another reason to be vigilant and be armed whenever possible but, I also recognize that being armed in this particular situation may not have changed the outcome at all. In response, a listener has asked what could/should a CHL holder do if faced with similar circumstances. This can quickly get into a game of utter BS the likes of which Gecko45 could only dream up but, I'd like to honor the listener's request and see what you guys think.

So here's the situation to the best of our knowledge with some minor changes. It's 10:30am and your family has made a mid-morning pit stop at Denny's for food on a road trip. I know, some of us wouldn't make this stop and damn sure wouldn't go to Denny's but, you can sub in your own breakfast hangout if you're so inclined. Either way, your meal is interrupted by three armed BGs who begin robbing not just the store's cash register but, individual patrons at gun point. Outside, there is at least one other BG you may not be aware of, waiting for the other three. The building in question has only one public entrance/exit and unfortunately, the BGs are between you and that exit. So what goes through your mind and what might you do in this situation? All you have on you is your EDC gear and you're the only one in your party who is armed.

 

[BG1960]

The thing about having a CHL - using a concealed weapon is an option, not a requirement. With family present, I doubt I would do anything more that pile my $tuff on the table and act real scared. Pretty certain there would be a lot of verbal praying. The objective is to get my family through it safely.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Difficult indeed!
Sitting at a table with your family makes them a collateral damage target if you try to do anything about what is going on.

 

[gcmj45acp]

Agree 100%. But, once people started getting shot, the situation went from bad to worse rather quickly. Fortunately, that's also when the BGs decided to leave.

 

[Younggun]

Not sure. I guess it would depend on how vigilant the BGs were being as well as the distance of the shot.


For instance, if they are only watching one side of the place and are not watching me at the moment I MIGHT attempt to stop them. If they are actively searching the other customers I would be more inclined to act as being found with a weapon could turn very bad for me.


There are so many variables in these situations that it is nearly impossible to say I would have gone with Plan A instead of B, C, or D.


Also have to consider where other customers are in relation to the BGs. I can shoot fairly well but I know better than to think I can keep that same amount of accuracy under extreme circumstances and very few could.


I guess if I saw an opportunity I might, otherwise I'm just another grey man.


I think the important thing to do is consider the situations and play them out in your head. You will probably never see the exact scenario you thought about but it allows you to make faster and better decisions due to already having an idea of what may be smart or dumb based in the mental exercises.


Guess that makes me a "maybe".

 

[TX69]

Proves the point that a semi automatic firearm and at least one back up mag are an excellent idea. Why do you have to exit the premises? Not knowing the layout of the restaurant in this case it will be hard to say where to be. I always choose the both/table at the back of the place and the seat where my gun hand/arm is free to draw. After that it is impossible to speculate how anything will play out. It would seem to me that trying to exit only makes sure that you engage ALL of the bad guys where as if you stay inside where there is cover you'll encounter tops three. When gun fire starts everyones instinct is to run which includes bad guys. Let them run off and exit and focus on the one(s) that fire back.

Since its a Denny's there are going to be many fat people to hide behind.

 

[Southpaw]

Since its a Denny's there are going to be many fat people to hide behind.

DOH!!!

 

[Acera]

One thing you ought to address in your scenario is that it is against most all fire codes to only have one entry and exit. That situation will probably not happen in real life as there is almost always a fire exit or two around the public areas opposite from the main entrance. While most people don't notice them as we don't use them to enter and exit, they are none the less there.

And yes, I would consider pushing out my family/friends out that door (and setting off the fire alarm in the process) ahead of me as a viable option.

We also have to consider that the BGs are there for money and to make a clean escape, not to kill. That is an implied threat to get their way with you and not their first priority in most all but the extreme cases. They don't want a gun fight and tend to run from them. Any disruption in their plan tends to drive them away, as they don't want to be there any longer than they have to and risk the police showing up and getting caught. Just saying you and your party trying to escape may not be a priority for them to stop you.

 

[gcmj45acp]

One thing you ought to address in your scenario is that it is against most all fire codes to only have one entry and exit. That situation will probably not happen in real life as there is almost always a fire exit or two around the public areas opposite from the main entrance. While most people don't notice them as we don't use them to enter and exit, they are none the less there.

Agreed, the fire exits are/should be there by code and are usually clearly marked as such but, as you noted, people often don't notice them. The smart kids tend to take note of where these exits are out of habit. Strangely enough though, even in an emergency, people have been known to fail to use said exits. One sign that seems to stop people dead in their tracks reads "STOP! Emergency Exit Only. Alarm will sound if door is opened." Its social conditioning I guess that unless someone is there giving them permission, some people simply will not open a door with those markings on it. They'll follow a herd through the door all day long but, if they are the first to see it, they'll stop dead in their tracks or even walk right by the door. Saw it happen in a flash fire where the fire started between me and the nearest fire exit. Had to shove the person in front of me through the door. It was the weirdest thing I'd ever seen...Building on fire is clearly an emergency and yet, the person was stuck in cerebral fibrillation, unable to decide what to do about the door.

 

[stdreb27]

In not pulling out my gun till I believe my or my family's death is eminent, without action. Nothing I have on me is going to be worth dealing with a grand jury.

Stores are insured, stuff is replaceable.

 

[gcmj45acp]

We also have to consider that the BGs are there for money and to make a clean escape, not to kill. That is an implied threat to get their way with you and not their first priority in most all but the extreme cases. They don't want a gun fight and tend to run from them. Any disruption in their plan tends to drive them away, as they don't want to be there any longer than they have to and risk the police showing up and getting caught. Just saying you and your party trying to escape may not be a priority for them to stop you.

Normally true but, in this case, apparently the BGs got angry and started shooting even though no one resisted. The one person who was killed, was shot because he got up to shield children when the BGs started aiming at them. They also shot an employee who was trying to escape. There's video of this particular incident but, it hasn't been released yet. The situation was fluid and changed from a simple robbery to something much more rather quickly and I have no problem conceding the point that in this particular case, the presence of a CHL holder may or may not have made a difference at all.

 

[deemus]

Having an uncle who was killed in a similar situation, I would keep quiet and have my hand on my gun. When the first shot was fired, I would join the fight.

If no shots get fired, I give up my $ and stay quiet.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Problem being....they are robbing individual patrons. When they get to me, they're gonna have another gun - and they just might decide to use it - or may overreact at seeing it and start shooting.

Given the specific situation above, I'm going to have to say that there's no other option than to shield my family as best I can and take them on, having distracted them in whatever way I possibly could. Prior to that, I will have hit 911 on my cell if at ALL possible, and either just leave it on so they can triangulate, or try to somehow convey to them where I am and what is going on.

Snatch and grab? Yeah - I'm gonna sit there and be a good witness. If they're going to go one-on-one, then there's little option but to open the ball IMO.

 

[Renegade]

Well my view is a little different.

I would not try to shield my family. I would try to put distance between me and them. If SHTF, I will probably be a lead magnet and I sure as hell do not want my family near me. My choice though would to give them wallet and hope they split.

 

[Coop45]

What if you are eating in the local Whataburger and a gang of elderly topless dancers are going from table to table demanding that you accept a free lap dance? Then when they finish, they demand some of your french fries and run away with all of the fries and your last container of catsup. Do you call 911 and report the theft or just buy more fries? If anyone has experienced this, what did you do?

 

[benenglish]

...a gang of elderly topless dancers are going from table to table demanding that you...

If you want to experience this, I can point you to a couple of truly scary clubs in Covington, KY, where they're not just elderly but toothless, too.

I am not kidding.

 

[V-Tach]

Every situation is fluid and different. What anyone of us would have done or would do, does not really matter. We weren't there. All we can do is what you have suggested. Be keenly aware of the exits, keenly aware of our environment at all times and armed whenever possible. It is our individual responsibility to train, and train often with the correct training that fits our individual needs. jmho......

.

 

[Heinz Bar]

As a famous man once said, "A man's got to know his limitations." Not being a Spec Ops soldier or trained LEO, 3+ to 1 does not seem like very good odds to me. I probably wouldn't start that fight, best to let them have what they came for. But one thing I can do is read the tea leaves and as a previous poster said, when the fight begins you have to join or flee. Point out the emergency exit and lay down covering fire.

 

[Coop45]

If you want to experience this, I can point you to a couple of truly scary clubs in Covington, KY, where they're not just elderly but toothless, too.

I am not kidding.

(Note to self) Stay out of Kentucky.

 

[preyn2]

What if you are eating in the local Whataburger and a gang of elderly topless dancers are going from table to table demanding that you accept a free lap dance? Then when they finish, they demand some of your french fries and run away with all of the fries and your last container of catsup. Do you call 911 and report the theft or just buy more fries? If anyone has experienced this, what did you do?

I can't be the only guy with this thought: Define "elderly". Plus, I've seen some pretty well-maintained "elderly" ladies.