Lone Survivor guy calls out the guy interviewing him
- Thread starter deemus
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That was bad. Whether you believe it to be true or not, that these recent wars are unconstitutional and unjustified, you don't tell a guy who lost all his buddies that. He doesn't care about all that and will not be able to come to terms with that fact for a long time, unfortunately.
Very correct. That they died for essentially nothing in terms of the unconstitutionality and unjustified basis of what they were ordered into? It is a truth most vets might never be able to confront and I don't wholly blame them.
I often wonder, is this the real basis for the supposed PTSD cases, are the troops at some level aware of the truth of the situation and them facing death because of it causes them personal issues?
Bingo.
After Pearl Harbor, my father was called upon to kill other humans. He did so, unhesitatingly. Being the son of a hardshell Baptist evangelist, he had a very hard time with the whole idea of killing. But he did it because he believed, in the grand scheme of things, that he, collectively with the rest of the Allies, was doing the right thing.
AFAIK, this was the only thing he ever lied to me about. I didn't find out about the sort of action he had been involved in until after he died. He didn't want his son to think of him as a killer. He went so far as to instill a sort of pacifism in me. His mantra about violence was "Don't fight. Almost nothing is worth fighting for. Only the things worth dying for are worth fighting for. But if fighting is justified, you win at any cost. There are no rules."
He only gave me that talk a couple of times and it chills me to the bone to remember those talks. There was experience behind those words that I knew nothing of as a child. As an adult, I know some of what he did and, howevermuch I hate to admit it, it would have made me afraid of him if I had known about it when I was young. I still have problems reconciling in my mind the thin, gentle, tender to a fault, frankly effeminate man who raised me with my knowledge of what he did behind Japanese lines in the occupied Philippines.
If he had been put in that situation on the basis of political maneuvering instead of Pearl Harbor, if he had known he was being used by moneyed interests for purposes well outside any moral justification for war, I sincerely doubt he would have been able to survive. If he had survived, I doubt his soul could have ever healed from the wounds.
My heart goes out to our returning vets. They must deal with issues far beyond what happened on the battlefield and it's a monstrous evil that this is so.
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That's amazing, and I love it. Only an extremely wise man could come up with that. Thanks for sharing.
+1
There is arguably no true rise of "PTSD" rates in the service for this war than for previous wars. The only difference is that now the definition of exactly what constitutes "PTSD" has changed, and more people are coming forward to report it and to be diagnosed with it. As for the question of "unconstitutionality" or "unjustified basis", that has almost zero real effect. In war, in the battle, in the heat of the moment, soldiers do not fight for politicians, they do not fight for policies, religion, freedom, all that jazz, etc. Sure, it has a huge influence on why they chose to join and go to war, but in the moment, they fight for eachother. I guarantee you that they didn't give a damn about how "constitutional" or "just" the overall war in Afghanistan is, because when the bullets start flying, none of that matters.
dustycorgill
Well-Known
Wahlberg supports the troops from what I know. But he has also been a outspoken gun control advocate, so my respect for him only goes so far.
Wonder if hanging out with Luttrell changed his way of thinking at all. I know Marcus and the guy who saved him still hang out every now and then and shoot guns at his ranch. Wonder if he indoctrinated Wahlberg with some common sense as well.
dustycorgill
Well-Known
Maybe, you never know. I mean Wahlberg cannot legally own a gun because he is a convicted felon, so that may have an impact on his views. He has nothing to lose by them passing more gun control. But.....you never know. Besides, I am sure there are some celebrities that own weapons that are convicted felons, just keep it a secret I guess.
I was REALLY suprised to see that Pitt/Angelia are into guns as much as they are.
I was REALLY suprised to see that Pitt/Angelia are into guns as much as they are.
It is I believe the difference between the immorality of violence and the moral use of force. "violence never solved anything" might be true, the moral use of force can, has, and does solve things.
I never ever like to argue or take difference with someone who I think may be a vet, and definitely have respect for anyone ballsy enough to go do that job but I've got to point out the suicide rate among veterans right now. While I understand the definition of PTSD may have been altered for a bigger umbrella, the definition of suicide hasn't changed and it is soaring. Whether the issue is due to feelings of my buddy got killed in a war that wasn't worth fighting for, or it is the result of something else I don't know and won't comment on. There does appear to be a problem though regardless of the source.
It's really alright. A lot of people have misconceptions about statistics in the military, mostly because of the way in which major news stations choose to present them. Almost half of all military suicides haven't even deployed, and most of them have not ever been in combat if they have deployed. A good sized portion of them aren't even active duty (as in Reserves and Guard who haven't deployed either). There's a lot more going on with the suicides than PTSD. PTSD has always been there. Nowadays it's less frowned upon to come forward and admit you have it, but back in the day they just bottled it up because it could affect their entire careers, from promotion opportunities to denial of security clearances, etc. In fact, it is a very recent movement to make it more acceptable to admit that one has a problem and seeking treatment for it is now encouraged instead of frowned upon. The rates are rising (for the most part) because of more reporting, not more instances. Don't get me wrong, there are people that suffer from serious PTSD and kill themselves, but it's not the epidemic that most people think that it is.
ROGER4314
Been Called "Flash" Since I Was A Kid!
Don't fight. Almost nothing is worth fighting for.
Interesting how differently we were raised. My father's first name was "Marion" and as the story goes, he'd whip your ass for calling him that. He went by a number of nicknames, most notably "Doc".
In his younger days, he was called "Gorally" (reference to Gorilla) and, as my uncles told me, it was common to say "Gorally would fight at the drop of a hat" That's how I grew up and that's also what I became. I spent a lot of years making up for that and I'm not that way any more.
The last time he got violent with me, I took a knife to him. I left home at 17 and never returned.
Regarding the movie, I'm going to see it tomorrow with some hesitation. Some desk jockey ordered that civilians were not to be harmed. In country, EVERYONE is a combatant! That order killed nearly the entire crew. Sorry, I would have put him out of the game.
Flash
Interesting how differently we were raised. My father's first name was "Marion" and as the story goes, he'd whip your ass for calling him that. He went by a number of nicknames, most notably "Doc".
In his younger days, he was called "Gorally" (reference to Gorilla) and, as my uncles told me, it was common to say "Gorally would fight at the drop of a hat" That's how I grew up and that's also what I became. I spent a lot of years making up for that and I'm not that way any more.
The last time he got violent with me, I took a knife to him. I left home at 17 and never returned.
Regarding the movie, I'm going to see it tomorrow with some hesitation. Some desk jockey ordered that civilians were not to be harmed. In country, EVERYONE is a combatant! That order killed nearly the entire crew. Sorry, I would have put him out of the game.
Flash
