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Discussion in 'Politics' started by oldag, Jul 6, 2018.
And here I thought these were Damn Yankees:
I married one as well. She says a "damned yankee" is one who won't assimilate. She has fully embraced dixie.
Bro, hope you are 100% correct!
. . . and Andersonville and Belle Isle were vacation paradises.
Andersonville & Belle Isle WERE paradises when compared to Point Lookout & Camp Douglas, as the DY hellholes were, "out of the mouths of the Union Army officers" that managed the concentration camps, intended to CAUSE POWs DEATH on a wholesale basis.
(Even a the worst CSA prison pen, the death rate was LESS than 5% of that per 1,000 POWs at Point Lookout DEATH CAMP.)
Btw, the official US Army report on Andersonville says that after extensive investigation that there were NO intentional inflictions of murder, torture, denial of medical care or any other INTENTIONAL war crimes.
The USA's report says that the sickness & death at Andersonville was caused by a lack of understanding of treating "filth diseases", everyone drinking impure water & the simple fact that there was insufficient food for both the Union prisoners & the CSA guard force.
(GUARDS at Andersonville starved at the same rate as Union POWs did there.)
That's WHY you should read the 2 books that I referenced . = TO DIE IN CHICAGO will turn most decent people's stomachs.
You may also want to read: PORTALS TO HELL: MILITARY PRISONS OF THE CIVIL WAR by Professor Lonnie R. Speer.
There were no picnics in POW camps--North or South. It sucked, was brutal, and soldiers were treated like garbage. But there was no Geneva Convention protecting folks in those days. Furthermore, it was not without the realm of reasoned thought for the North to view combatants from the CSA as traitors, in that the Union always viewed ALL the States as still part of the United States and that under the very words of the Constitution (Art. III., Sec. 3), those CSA troops were de jure and de facto committing ongoing treason from the very beginning of the war to the end.
By your own admission, your own nerves over the War are still frayed and raw even to this day--some 150 years after-the-fact, so imagine how raw and frayed the nerves of folks in the moment--both in the North and in the South. YOU and I can't even imagine, but it is certain that many in the North viewed the Southern combatants as traitors deserving death on the battlefield or hanging/firing squad/etc. once captured. The North could view the CSA combatants as traitors but the South could NOT view the Union combatants as traitors.
Just food for thought.
So you think that TORTURE, beating POWs to death with rifle butts, starving POWs to death, intentionally denying necessary medical care & murdering them for NOT being "properly deferential to the Union officers" is "understandable", if NOT OK??
I find it more than a little interesting that the US Veterans Corps (AKA: The US Army Invalids Corps) members were first tried as guards at Point Lookout & Camp Douglas by the Yankee High Command.
(Disabled veterans were quickly replaced as guards, because they weren't cruel to the CSA POWs.)
Then the Union tried using escaped slaves, as they believed that escaped slaves would abuse Southerners.
(Where the US Veteran's Corps were "just doing a job" & weren't generally cruel, the escaped slaves actually FED & took good care of the sick POWs, so they were replaced after about 120 days.)
Finally the Union commanders came up with a group of guards who would be as cruel as the High Command wanted: Former military prisoners, who were serving long sentences in US military prisons for rape, robbery, assaulting NCOs/officers, desertion, etc.
In return, the military prisoners were told that they would be released & their records cleared IF they were sufficiently cruel to the CS POWs.
Otoh, IF they were found to be insufficiently cruel to the POWs, they would be returned to their previous prisons to finish their sentences.
The USA's own records indicate that the vast majority of war crimes against CSA POWs were committed by the prisoner-guards in the last 11-15 months that the concentration camps were open. - The prison's official records indicate that MANY prisoner-guards were actually rewarded with extra cash, for their cruel/unlawful behaviors.
So, SORRY, your explanation is a leaky boat that sinks of its own weight.
No, it's not ok. But horrible brutality was present at the camps I mentioned too. This is not a battle of equivalence, sir. You, somewhat understandably (given your family history), only focus on the brutality of the one side but seem to be unwilling to view that brutality existed on both sides. I don't condone anything that happened to your forbears and other CSA soldiers at their prisons; however, for you to not recognize that there was brutality aplenty at Andersonville and Belle Isle is simply amazing--regardless of what the "official" US Army report states. Captain Henry Wirz (the Commandant of Andersonville) was even executed as a war criminal after the war. That wasn't done for "no reason". There is very little good to say about the Civil War, and that's a fact.
I believe that horrible things happen in all wars. While certainly people shouldn't forget the atrocities of war, still after time it shouldn't be held against those that had no part in it.
I believe there are bad things happening in our own time that are of more immediate concern.
It just so happens that I'm a family friend of Brigadier General Heinrich Wirz (SZ Army Retired), the great-grand nephew of MAJ Wurtz.= GEN Wirz has been our houseguest numerous times when he visited the USA on The Wirz Family Foundation business.
(Btw, at one point in 2009, we had all six of the senior flag officers of the SZ Army as houseguests at one time. = It was "fairly close quarters" at our house that week, as we only had a 4BR house, for my lady, myself, our daughter & 6 SZ officers. Nonetheless, a good time was had by all.).
Fyi, the official records of a session of The USA Board for the Correction of Military Records, sitting at St Louis, MO cleared MAJ Wurtz of ANY criminal behavior at Andersonville.The report, which was under the jurisdiction of & endorsed by a US Military Judge (Brigadier General, USA) found that, "Maj Henry Wurtz, MD was convicted of crimes, by a court of no lawful jurisdiction, which he could not have committed as he was far away & hospitalized with a severely wounded arm at the time of the claimed crimes, upon knowingly perjured evidence & was therefore convicted & executed unlawfully by the Army. He therefore is exonerated of any criminal behavior at Andersonville Military Prison & his service record is hereby cleared of that conviction & of any dishonorable behavior."
It's a good thing to know the truth of what one mentions on the WWW, as you never know who you are talking to.