Mass shootings

[bdee]

I don't consider this a 2nd Amendment issue. Nor do I blame the tool for this change in behavior.

But there does seem to be a real uptick in mass shootings all the while overall crime goes down, including violent crime.

I don't have the answer to why these things have changed. Now I know that the anti-gun crowd wants to blame the tool, and their solution is to make it harder to get a hold of a gun as though that would end mass shootings. There doesn't seem to be any real response to these shootings aside from those wanting to ban guns.

But I'd love to get some ideas how society could address this problem from a pro-gun rights crowd.

Is there anything society can do?

 

[Savage20]

bring back public hangings

 

[oldag]

No increase in incidents, just in media hysteria.

Mass Shootings Rare, Government Study Says
American Rifleman
Friday, August 7, 2015

A new study by the Congressional Research Service, by far the most thorough and comprehensive of its type to date, confirms that mass shootings continue to be rare in the United States. While Michael Bloomberg’s TheTrace.org website says that mass shootings happen “more often than they used to,” renown criminologist James Alan Fox, of Northeastern University, whose extensive analysis of mass shootings is discussed at length in the CRS study, says that the study shows “there is no solid trend” in the number of such crimes and “No matter how you cut it, there’s no epidemic.”

The study, “Mass Murder with Firearms: Incidents and Victims, 1999-2013,” defines a “mass shooting” as “a multiple homicide incident in which four or more victims are murdered with firearms, within one event, in one or more locations in close proximity.” Because the underlying circumstances of mass shootings vary widely, the study categorizes such crimes as family-related, felony-related (e.g., robberies and gang shootouts), and those taking place in public locations, such as schools, restaurants and houses of worship.

By CRS’ count, 71 percent of mass shootings and 79 percent of their fatal victims over the 15-year period 1999-2013 were family- or felony-related. Public incidents, while accounting for the vast majority of mass shootings covered by the news media, accounted for only 21 percent of such incidents and 29 percent of their victims.

Anti-gun groups and their allies in the news media portray mass shootings as common events that place the public at extreme risk. However, between 1999 and 2013, mass shootings covered by the CRS study accounted for a microscopic 0.004 percent of all deaths, about 0.66 percent of all murder victims, and less than one fiftieth the number of non-firearm murder victims in the United States. Stated another way, during the same 15-year period, the chance against a person being killed in a mass shooting in the United States was about 517,000:1.

Finally, while anti-gun groups would like to portray mass shootings as being most often committed with “assault weapons,” the CRS study found that between 1999 and 2013, less than 10 percent of mass shootings were committed with any firearm capable of using a detachable magazine holding more than 10 rounds.

With other data showing that most mass shootings are committed by individuals who acquire guns by passing background checks or by illegal means, the CRS study adds to the body of evidence against any expansion of firearm-related background checks systems on the basis of mass shootings’ frequency or trend.

 

[bdee]

So are you saying it isn't really a problem?

 

[ContactLeft]

Let people carry where they want to carry. Problem solved.

 

[bdee]

Anything suggesting in the Oregon massacre that there were license holders present at the shooting that were legally prevented from defending themselves?

 

[vmax]

Is there anything society can do?

yes, get half of the population thats on psychotic drugs the hell off of them and if they can't function in society without being doped up with a pre bought ticket to the crazy train, then lock them up.

 

[bdee]

yes, get half of the population thats on psychotic drugs the hell off of them and if they can't function in society without being doped up with a pre bought ticket to the crazy train, then lock them up.

So large scale mental institutions? Or are you saying people on things like SSRIs should not be allowed on the streets?

 

[ContactLeft]

Anything suggesting in the Oregon massacre that there were license holders present at the shooting that were legally prevented from defending themselves?

Not that I'm aware of. I would add that encouraging people to carry would help as well. If the guy that charged the shooter had a pistol he may have been able to stop him.

 

[Younggun]

Anything suggesting in the Oregon massacre that there were license holders present at the shooting that were legally prevented from defending themselves?

I don't believe it is legal to carry on a college campus in Oregon. Also do not know if most college age adults would be old enough to qualify for a license there.



Bad people always have and always will do bad things. Good people tend to follow the law, bad people don't. We can't stop bad things from happening, but we can make it easier for good people to have the tools to protect themselves. This includes teaching people to NOT be victims. Teach them to be self reliant. As well as removing restrictions on their ability to have the material items that may aid in their defense.

 

[TheDan]

So are you saying it isn't really a problem?

Any murder is a problem, but it's false to say it's happening more often. There were more school shootings 100 years ago than there are now.

But I'd love to get some ideas how society could address this problem from a pro-gun rights crowd.

We can't stop bad things from happening, but we can make it easier for good people to have the tools to protect themselves.

There's your talking point right there.

 

[robertc1024]

Yep. YG pretty much nailed it.

 

[sdismukes]

The left is promoting this website that tracks all "4-or-more" people shot at, much less injured or dead.

http://www.vox.com/2015/8/24/9183525/gun-violence-statistics

It makes no distinction between a self-defense instance or a gang-bang drive-by. Just "4 or more people shot at" - I presume to include bystanders not actually in the line of fire. Interesting in the totality, worthless in the details.

 

[zincwarrior]

I don't consider this a 2nd Amendment issue. Nor do I blame the tool for this change in behavior.

But there does seem to be a real uptick in mass shootings all the while overall crime goes down, including violent crime.

I don't have the answer to why these things have changed. Now I know that the anti-gun crowd wants to blame the tool, and their solution is to make it harder to get a hold of a gun as though that would end mass shootings. There doesn't seem to be any real response to these shootings aside from those wanting to ban guns.

But I'd love to get some ideas how society could address this problem from a pro-gun rights crowd.

Is there anything society can do?

Its expected.
1. Whenever there are periods of great stress on society, fringe stuff gets a strong breath. In the 30s we had a major rise in "isms" and Bonnie and Clyde type behavior. The 50s and late 60s/early 70 had such joys as the Zodiak, and small terrorist movements like the Weathermen. We are in another period of that stress.

2. The internets is glorifying these guys.

 

[oldag]

So are you saying it isn't really a problem?

Please tell me exactly where I stated - or even remotely implied - it was not a problem.

Any murder is a problem, wise guy.

But in terms of problems, some deserve more attention than others. All resources are limited. Prioritization must occur. And root causes need to be addressed, rather than twisting the tragedy to support liberal dogma.

In a free society (and even societies lacking freedom), if someone wants to kill people they will do so. Do away with every gun, they will use a bow and arrow. Do away with bow and arrows, they will use poison. Do away with poison, they will use arson. Do away with matches, they will drive a tanker truck with gasoline, ammonia, propane, etc. into the building and kill far more than ten.

Bottom line is we need to quit focusing on the tool of death and look at root causes.

Another troubled person whose problems likely can be traced back to home life and societal surroundings.

Want to reduce these incidents? Get families back into one piece, minimize divorce. Get parents raising their kids instead of pawning them off on day care and then the schools, expecting others to train their children. Bring back discipline. Get parents involved in the schools. Get people caring enough to help these troubled souls get help, rather than egging them on. Get kids into real relationships and off the net and its virtual "relationships". Get kids off their computers/phones and out into the world to play or work.

You can get cracking on that list.

 

[bdee]

So are you saying it should be harder for people with mental illness to legally acquire guns, or are you saying it should be harder for those people to maintain possession of those guns?

 

[oldag]

So are you saying it should be harder for people with mental illness to legally acquire guns, or are you saying it should be harder for those people to maintain possession of those guns?

Pardon me for asking, but can you read?

I am saying the root cause of this problem is NOT guns. Try reading again. Work on that comprehension thing.

 

[Mreed911]

So are you saying it should be harder for people with mental illness to legally acquire guns, or are you saying it should be harder for those people to maintain possession of those guns?

He's saying we should be focusing on why more mentally ill people are becoming violent.

Considering that murdering innocent people unrelated to your specific problems (but that you 'blame' for your general state) isn't actually going to solve the problem... it's another symptom of illness leading to unchecked violence.

The only way to stop this is a fast response, meaning MORE people carrying.

 

[oldag]

Listen up and read carefully, bdee. If there are any words here you do not understand, ask for an explanation. I will be glad to help.

I will try this again, speaking more slowly.

In a free society (and even societies lacking freedom), if someone wants to kill people they will do so. Do away with every gun, they will use a bow and arrow. Do away with bow and arrows, they will use poison. Do away with poison, they will use arson. Do away with matches, they will drive a tanker truck with gasoline, ammonia, propane, etc. into the building and kill far more than ten.

Bottom line is we need to quit focusing on the tool of death and look at root causes.

Another troubled person whose problems likely can be traced back to home life and societal surroundings.

Want to reduce these incidents? Get families back into one piece, minimize divorce. Get parents raising their kids instead of pawning them off on day care and then the schools, expecting others to train their children. Bring back discipline. Get parents involved in the schools. Get people caring enough to help these troubled souls get help, rather than egging them on. Get kids into real relationships and off the net and its virtual "relationships". Get kids off their computers/phones and out into the world to play or work.

Nothing can ever be done to keep a mentally troubled person from killing others once they have decided to kill. They will find a tool of death.

The only thing that can keep this from happening is to prevent the person from becoming unstable (re: two paragraphs up) and intervening before they reach the snapping point (re: also two paragraphs up).

Got it?

Any words too big?

 

[diesel1959]

Oh, and quit making it so damn difficult to institutionalize folks that are obviously insane. The mental health system in this country is in shambles. Everybody wants to do it as out-patient therapy, group meetings, drugs & hugs. The fact is that more folks ought to be in the funny farm and kept there.