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  • Texas1911

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    May 29, 2017
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    Austin, TX
    Gun: HK USP Compact .357 Sig
    Ammo: Speer Lawman TMJ
    Range: Red's Indoor - South
    Distance: 7 Yards

    This is really the first time I've gone out and actually tried to shoot accurately with pistols. I was putting about 2 - 3 seconds before shots, focal point on the front sight. I wasn't paying too much attention to elevation of the rear sight, but more on trigger control.

    I shot a tighter group later, but I let a few people shoot the target to try out the gun. This was the first target of the day.

    I'm open to ideas. I was shooting with arms completely extended, square to the target, and trying a new grip that aligned the gun with my forearm. Basically I replicated what Todd Jarrett taught in a video. At first it felt awkward, but soon felt much better.

    I'm open to ideas / criticism.

    uspctarget.jpg


    uspctarget.com
    Capitol Armory ad
     

    SIG_Fiend

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    Feb 21, 2008
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    Austin, TX
    I'm really starting to hate polymer frame pistols! ;) They are so light that trigger flinch, your hands shaking, etc seems amplified and seems to throw your shots off even more than a metal frame gun.

    Well here was my target from today:

    tn_DSC01842.png


    That's 100rds of 45acp @ 7yds, rapid fire from a Sig P220. I'm no marksman by any standards, and I'm having a tough time holding the grip firmly enough without my hands shaking/wandering with the gun. Any tips for shaky hands? I'm thinking maybe it would help to get one of those gripmaster things from Academy to improve my manual dexterity.
     
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    Apr 3, 2008
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    1960/AldineW'field
    hope I'm not butting in, but I need critiquing more than you guys, anyway!!!
    this was 350-400rds, can't remember how many boxes of ammo I walked in there with. :scratches head:

    but, I'm in serious need of help, so puh-lease, fire away! ;)
    target2.jpg
     

    Texas1911

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    You got flyers which look mostly like anticipation flinch (pitching the gun up). The other shots look like trigger pulls. Try slowing down your trigger action, and letting the shot break smoothly. That's the majority of what causes my shots to go off center as well.

    What range (in yards) is that at?
     
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    Apr 3, 2008
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    1960/AldineW'field
    Seven.


    Try not to bust a gut at my expense. It's the fourth time I've ever shot anything. I definitely got sloppy at the end... still had steam to burn off, and only one more relay. I also caught myself trying to correct my previous shot, instead of trying to group them together. Hard not to, but I shall try again tomorrow. Thanks for the tips! :D
     

    Gopher

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    Mar 5, 2008
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    Far, far, far North Dallas
    HK and Micro: We all get hung up on the one hole group thing. Don't.;)
    Cut the 8 ring out of that B27 or hold that shoot and see up to your chest or head. Where are the majority of the holes? In the "kill" zone right? Close enough for government work in the real world.

    If you have a .22 start your range work with that. Work on sight picture, trigger control, and breathing. After you get warmed up move over to your primary weapon. Start close and slow working on the same things you did with the .22. Move everything out as you progress. How do you get to Bass Hall, practice, practice, practice.:D
     

    Texas1911

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    As I've told people before... everyone becomes good through practice. Those guys out winning championships don't have just a year of standing on a range. They have years, upon years of practice, and alot of natural talent.

    Small steps forward will get you farther than one giant leap.

    Tiff, you don't shoot badly at all. You have a nice group dead center of the target. I constantly see people at the range that are lucky to hit the target at 7 yards. I mean I've seen tighter groups from a 5" sawed off blunderbuss loaded with birdshot at 20 yards compared to what these guys can do. You have no reason to be discouraged about your performance.
     

    plexreticle

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    Apr 5, 2008
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    But I don't wanna be good enough for gov't work! I want to be GOOD! :)


    I found any kind of match shooting: idpa, bullseye, silhouette or whatever will improve your skills faster than anything. If your new to shooting, the first match you compete in will teach you more in 1 day than a year of solo practice.
     

    SIG_Fiend

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    Feb 21, 2008
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    Seven.


    Try not to bust a gut at my expense. It's the fourth time I've ever shot anything. I definitely got sloppy at the end... still had steam to burn off, and only one more relay. I also caught myself trying to correct my previous shot, instead of trying to group them together. Hard not to, but I shall try again tomorrow. Thanks for the tips! :D

    That's only the foruth time you've shot a gun?? If so, honestly that really isn't bad at all! Almost every time I go to the local range here, I would say 80-90% of the people there always have shots that look like they are using buckshot (think twice as wide as your group ;))

    What kind of gun are you using? Just a quick tip I learned not too long ago. One thing you can do to improve your trigger pull is to do what is called "surprising your trigger finger". Basically, just ease on the trigger to take up the slack/pre-travel until you reach the point where it gets very firm (the breaking point). Then, just hold it at the break point, focus on your front sight (don't focus your mind on the trigger) and just slowly start increasing the pressure on your trigger finger and at some point the gun will just go off. This will help prevent you from shooting without a flinch or yanking the trigger inadvertently. Even if a lot of other things like your grip method are maybe not as stable as they could be, as long as you have the sights properly aligned, focus on the front sight, and just ease the trigger backward then 9 times out of 10 the bullet will go exactly where the front sight was pointed when the shot breaks.

    One other thing you can add to this drill is to not let all the way off the trigger after you've fired. Some people have a real problem with yanking the trigger because after the shots breaks they will let the trigger all the way out and their finger will come off the trigger. So basically how you would do this is as soon as you've broken the shot, ease your finger slowly forward until you hear/feel the click of the sear resetting. Once you reach this point and it "clicks", stop and hold the trigger at that point and you will be at the sear break point already so all of the slack/pre-travel will already be taken out of the trigger. By doing this, your trigger finger will be moving substantially less like a few millimeters of travel as opposed to possibly ~1/2-1.0" if pulling the trigger from it's fully released point.

    Here's a vid showing the reset thing, though it's not the greatest vid: Link

    Here's another excellent video describing about the most stable grip method out there (thumbs forward): Link

    Gopher, I'm not really hung up on the one hole thing. ;) The way I heard it described by someone much more knowledgeable than myself is that as long as you can maintain groupings about the size of your fist, you are good to go. Right now that's about the size my groupings usually are, so I'm trying to focus on follow through and improving the speed of my follow up shots.
     

    LHB1

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    Mar 4, 2008
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    Houston
    Simplified pistol shooting techniques for accuracy:

    Pistol shooting is like mathematics: A + B + C = perfect bullseye!!!!

    A = Consistent grip. The gun recoils against your hand/grip. Change this grip even slightly and your pistol will hit at a different point of impact. Seat the pistol in your hand (preferably with barrel aligned with your forearm) and grip the handgun with a firm but not death-tight grip. A firm handshake grip is sufficient. Too much tension in grip will induce pistol/sight tremors.

    B = Sight Alignment. Align the front sight in the middle of rear sight notch with the top of front sight even with top of rear sight. With a pistol like the 5" M1911, each 1/100th inch (.01") error in sight alignment is equal to one full inch of error in bullet impact at 25 yds. Ex: .05" sight alignment error will miss center by 5 inches. If you have a caliper, check to see just how small .01" really is. Or .05" for that matter. For maximum accuracy in Bullseye or target shooting, focus on the sights and let the target blur.

    C = Trigger Control. THIS IS THE BIGGY!!! Nearly everyone can hold the pistol more or less consistently and align the sights but trigger control is where the rubber meets the road and misses are created. If you cause the sights to deviate from perfect alignment while firing the gun, then you reap the results of a miss (something other than a perfectly centered bullseye). Recommended technique is to slowly increase pressure in straight back direction while maintaining properly aligned sights on the target area. Every person has a "hold" (wobble) area. Don't fight it! As long as the sights are aligned correctly and in your normal hold area, increase trigger pressure SLOWLY and GENTLY. DON'T TRY TO GRAB THE TRIGGER WHEN THE SIGHTS ARE PERFECTLY ALIGNED. This usually results in a low and left (7 o'clock) miss for right hand shooters or low and right (5 o'clock) miss for left hand shooters. SLOW AND EASY TRIGGER PRESSURE WILL DO THE JOB BEST.

    IMO, if you try to hold the pistol consistently and try to align the sights correctly, item C (Trigger Control) is responsible for probably 98% of shots that don't hit the bullseye. Unload the gun and practice dry firing in a safe place until you can fire the pistol without disturbing the sight alignment. Just my experience based on many years of shooting pistols including Bullseye competition when I was younger.

    Suggested drill: Turn the target over and shoot at the plain back side, following techniques described above. Just hold sights properly aligned and in the center of plain target paper using suggested trigger control. Fire 10 shots and then turn the target over. You may be surprised to see a much smaller group than before because you were not distracted by the bullseye and thus used correct techniques. You may also be surprised to see the group centered in the bullseye because your eyes will naturally align the sights very close to the center of paper.
     

    ctxpta

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    Mar 22, 2008
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    Lockhart, Texas
    HUM

    Well I have found that PINK ear protection cause a natural force field that make the rounds automatically miss the center of target every 7 shots. JK...shooting well. Better than 80+% that do CHL at our range. They are using something larger. I would think you are ready or very close to moving up in caliber.
     

    Enron Exec

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    Apr 23, 2008
    101
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    Behind 16 rnds of 9x19mm
    The 357Sig rnd is challenging to shoot IMO. Ive put over 2k rnds through my Sig P226 and still have to focus more to shoot consecutively as accurate as my P220 in 45ACP, which is silly accurate out of the bag.
     
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