My Mom wants to sell her MAC 11

[Dionysis]

I couldn't resist that Title. No, she's not a machine-gun toting mamma, her husband passed recently and she can use the cash more than the gun. I thought about buying it from her till I read up on the MAC 11. Doesn't sound like a gun I'd like to own due to its poor ergonomics and my dance with carpal tunnel.

In case you're wondering, this is an RPB stampover, one of the ones put together using MAC manufactured parts after MAC folded. It's been fired but looks pristine comes with flash surpress, a big clip and two shorter ones. I figure retail on it to be $3K to $4500. Unfortunately it's with her in El Paso and I'm in Austin. I assume it'd be illegal for me to transport the MAC here to sell for her and I'll that have to go through a Class III dealer in El Paso.

Any helpful tips will be appreciated as my mom has one foot in the nursing home so I'm trying to help her marshall her resources to pay for it if/ when she has to move.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

It would in fact be illegal for you to have "possession" of it when it is not under her control. NFA weapons can ONLY be sold through a Class III/SOT dealer. I highly recommend before doing ANYTHING, contacting a Class III dealer and asking them for advice, because when it comes to NFA firearms there are far too many ways you can unknowingly do something that is considered to be a federal offense. You also may want to contact Sean Cody, who is here on this forum, as he is a lawyer and deals with NFA stuff so he may be able to point you in the right direction.

 

[Texas1911]

If the MAC was held under a trust, and you are on the trust, then you can legally possess the machine gun. As far as selling the machine gun, you can sell it yourself, just the transaction has to go through a C3 dealer. Essentially she can remain in possession, and you can do the leg work to find a buyer. Once you find the buyer, your local C3 dealer should be contacted to assist you in the process.

 

[Eli]

Has she Form 5ed it to herself? She needs to, and it takes all sorts of documents. You do NOT need to go through a dealer, she can sell it herself, but if youd prefer there are a few NFA dealers in the Austin area Spreadfire Arms - Class III Weapons Dealer, CHL Training, and Private Security Training, Austin, Texas and Untitled Document come to mind.

Eli

 

[Jason]

You do NOT need to go through a dealer, she can sell it herself, but if youd prefer there are a few NFA dealers in the Austin area

Eli

Uhmmm, if she sells it "herself" wouldn't the purchaser need to be paying some taxes and filling out forms? I guess there could be another way, but the dealer seems easiest and less likely for some obscure law to be broken.

 

[randmplumbingllc]

Uhmmm, if she sells it "herself" wouldn't the purchaser need to be paying some taxes and filling out forms? I guess there could be another way, but the dealer seems easiest and less likely for some obscure law to be broken.

Depends on how her husband held the NFA item. She can sell it on her own , as the prior post says, once she has documentation showing she is the legal owner. Once she finds a buyer and collects the payment, she will furnish all the serial numbers to the buyer, while still retaining the weapon. Once the buyer files the proper paperwork and fee's to the BATFE and gets approved, then you will have to have a class III dealer do the transfer.

Not as hard as it sounds. Just takes a while. Just write up a contract stating the terms in case the transfer does not go through, for some reason.

 

[Eli]

Uhmmm, if she sells it "herself" wouldn't the purchaser need to be paying some taxes and filling out forms? I guess there could be another way, but the dealer seems easiest and less likely for some obscure law to be broken.

If she sells to a dealer, a $200 tax is due, then another $200 tax when it gets sold to an individual.
If she sell INTRAstate to an individual, only one $200 tax is due.
If she sells INTERstate, it has to go through a dealer, $200 tax to the dealer and $200 tax to the buyer.
BATF won't allow laws to be broken if the forms are filled out properly.

Eli

 

[Dionysis]

Thanks everyone for your support and advice. I don't think the form 5 will work for us. She's sort of out of it much of the time now and we have a lot of things to work through besides selling this little gun.

Sounds like, as I feared, I'll either have to transport her to a dealer, or get a dealer to come to her house to pick up the MAC. I assumed she'd have to sell it to the dealer but it sounds like if the dealer will sell it for her we could get away with a transfer fee or possibly a per centage of the price.

That sounds better than just taking whatever some random dealer is willing to offer but she's in El Paso, and when I was there over the holidays I didn't see many class III dealers in the phone book. We may get the short end of the stick on any deals we work there.

Anyone have any idea how much it costs to set up a trust? If it's not too expensive, maybe we could go that route and then I could transport to a dealer with favorable terms.

 

[Eli]

I don't think you get it. You must transfer the weapon ASAP. A dealer cannot take possession until it is legally transferred. Are you an heir? A Form 5 is used to transfer the weapon to an heir, it's tax-free and does not require a sign-off.
I'd suggest going here and asking: Subguns.com NFA Firearms Discussion Board - Message Index, those guys are professionals.

Eli

 

[Jason]

Have the MAC shipped to the Class 3 dealer in Buda for "repair/refinishing" and sell it here? A repair/refinish could be a simple safety/function/cleaning maybe?

Does anyone know if that would work?

 

[robocop10mm]

I do not believe there is a $200 transfer fee TO the dealer and then another from the dealer. That is part of being the dealer.

BTW is it a 9mm or .380?

 

[Dionysis]

I don't think you get it. You must transfer the weapon ASAP. A dealer cannot take possession until it is legally transferred. Are you an heir? A Form 5 is used to transfer the weapon to an heir, it's tax-free and does not require a sign-off.
I'd suggest going here and asking: Subguns.com NFA Firearms Discussion Board - Message Index, those guys are professionals.

Eli

Thanks for the suggestion, if we can do what it takes to legally sell this we will, since she can use the cash for her care. In any case I don't think ATF will haul my 82 year old mother off to the pokey over this. I emailed the attorney Sean Cody and he invited me to call him to discuss this, so I think I'll work that in sometime soon.

 

[Dionysis]

Have the MAC shipped to the Class 3 dealer in Buda for "repair/refinishing" and sell it here? A repair/refinish could be a simple safety/function/cleaning maybe?

Does anyone know if that would work?

Oh, that's a good thought, I'll also look into that, but to Eli's point, we may have to do the Form 5 before a dealer could do that for us.

 

[Dionysis]

I do not believe there is a $200 transfer fee TO the dealer and then another from the dealer. That is part of being the dealer.

BTW is it a 9mm or .380?

It's the .380. I'll see if I can upload some jpgs just for grins.

 

[SC-Texas]

Look:

A couple of questions:
1. Was there a will?
2. Was the will probated or the estate administered?

Some observations:
1. If the gun is on a form 4 to the deceased Husband, it must be transferred to the Wife or to the heir of the estate or somone who has the power to sign for the estate may transfer the wespon to a buyer.
2. Who is going to sign the form 5 to the wife?
3. Who would sign the form 4 form the deceased husband to the dealer or another individual?
4. The answer is: The executor of the estate or the person apppointed to administer the estate by the court or the person named in the will.
5. Now, if the estte wasn't probated . . . . . and there was no will . . . .

I may have missed the answers to these questions, but I don't think they have been answered.

I believe the OP and I breifly corresponded but I didn't even ask these questions for some reason. Had a brain block momentarily I guess.

 

[SC-Texas]

I do not believe there is a $200 transfer fee TO the dealer and then another from the dealer. That is part of being the dealer.

BTW is it a 9mm or .380?

You are incorrect. Form 4 to a dealer has a $200.00 transfer tax.

Dealer to Delaer on a form 3 is tax free.

Dealer to individual on a form 4 is $200.00

 

[Dionysis]

Look:

A couple of questions:
1. Was there a will?
2. Was the will probated or the estate administered?

Some observations:
1. If the gun is on a form 4 to the deceased Husband, it must be transferred to the Wife or to the heir of the estate or somone who has the power to sign for the estate may transfer the wespon to a buyer.
2. Who is going to sign the form 5 to the wife?
3. Who would sign the form 4 form the deceased husband to the dealer or another individual?
4. The answer is: The executor of the estate or the person apppointed to administer the estate by the court or the person named in the will.
5. Now, if the estte wasn't probated . . . . . and there was no will . . . .

I may have missed the answers to these questions, but I don't think they have been answered.

I believe the OP and I breifly corresponded but I didn't even ask these questions for some reason. Had a brain block momentarily I guess.

Yes, we did correspond by email. I asked my mom whether the will went through probate, she said she didn't think so. She thinks the will said all his possessions were to go straight to her and that there was no probate. I don't think she remembers for sure though. I have the Form 4 that is in her deceased husband's name. I will ask her who was appointed executor on the will. I have a guess as to who that was, and I think they are deceased. Can she appoint an executor to the estate absent a living executor that was named in the will?

Also, will she have to go and get fingerprinted if we can wade through the agency piece? She's not feeling well enough to do something like that. It'll be a shame if we have to end up turning this in to ATF!

 

[Eli]

Also, will she have to go and get fingerprinted if we can wade through the agency piece? She's not feeling well enough to do something like that. It'll be a shame if we have to end up turning this in to ATF!

There is no sign-off required to do a Form 5, but I think she might have to get fingerprinted.
DO NOT SURRENDER THE WEAPON TO THE BATF!
Are you not an heir?

Eli

 

[jdbailey]

I may be interested in the gun - let me know when you get all the form stuff figured out - If we can work a deal we can cut out the middle man

 

[dauntedfuture]

I thought there was a provision that if you were willed the CLIII then you would not have to pay the transfer.