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National Reciprocity action today?!?

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  • Mexican_Hippie

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    I got this in an email. I know it's at least partial fundraising scare mongering, but anyone else have info on this bill? Is this another one of those that comes up every year and gets lost?


    Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 14:23:54 -0700
    From: Dudley.Brown@nationalgunrights.org
    To: mexican_hippie@xxxxxxxx.com
    Subject: Anti-gun bill moving in Congress tomorrow

    Mexican_Hippie,

    Major action on anti-gun legislation is taking place at the Capitol in Washington, DC right now.

    I have been warning you for weeks about H.R. 822, “Obama’s Concealed Carry Bill,” which has been rapidly making its way through Congress, and votes are happening today and tomorrow in Committee.

    Anti-gun members of the Committee are already trying to amend the bill to add national standards to the existing legislation, which NAGR opposes.

    We expect a vote on this tomorrow, which is why it is imperative for you to call RIGHT NOW.

    Please call Lamar Smith at 202-225-4236 right now. Tell him that you are opposed to this dangerous piece of legislation, H.R. 822.

    And once you are done making that call, please call your Congressman at 202-224-3121, and make your voice heard opposing H.R. 822.

    -- Dudley


    From: Dudley Brown [dudley.brown@nationalgunrights.org]
    Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 1:54 PM
    Subject: Urgent action needed

    NAGR_email.gif


    Mexican_Hippie,

    Last week I told you some well-meaning, but in my opinion very misguided pro-gunners are working to pass a bill that could turn into a Trojan Horse for more gun control.

    I was talking about H.R. 822, the so-called “National Reciprocity Act,” which could open the flood gates of gun control.

    I’m calling it the National CCW Registration Act.

    While the idea that all states should recognize a concealed weapons permit is sound public policy, the use of the anti-gun federal bureaucracy to implement it is simply foolish.

    Can I count on you to take action RIGHT NOW? Rep. Lamar Smith is the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee that will hear H.R. 822, the National CCW Registration Act.

    I need you to call
    House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith and make clear that you want to keep the government’s hands off your permit and that you are opposed to federal intrusion into the concealed weapons permit process.

    Once the federal government is in the business of setting the standards for concealed carry permits, it’s only a matter of time before they start using that power to restrict our rights.

    Now you may hear arguments that this bill doesn’t do that, and maybe that’s true... for now.

    Even worse, once this bill starts moving, anyone can amend the bill with anything... and no legislation can bind a future Congress in any way.

    That doesn’t count what Obamacrats in the Department of Justice might dream up as the “regulations” to carry out the legislative “intent.”


    Gun owners have enough trouble with Republican-run Executive branches implementing the law improperly. Does anyone really think the Obama Administration is going to treat gun owners fairly?

    I know many of you are frustrated that you can carry in some states but not others -- I’m frustrated, too.

    I carry concealed every day, everywhere I go, and have worked to expand the ability of citizens to carry in dozens of states.

    I believe I should be able to carry concealed -- without a permit -- in all 50 states. That’s what “bear arms” means. Believe me, that’s a long-term policy goal for the National Association for Gun Rights.

    But mark my words, H.R. 822, the National CCW Registration Act, will become nothing more than a Trojan Horse for even more federal gun control.

    I understand that many who support this bill sincerely just want their right to carry respected -- but cannot due to the fact that their state or another won’t do the right thing.

    But the devil is truly in the details... and the details are where H.R. 822 gets sticky.

    This bill isn’t just about the right to carry for self defense -- it’s a battle over the role of government and the ability to restrict our Second Amendment rights.

    Once gun owners let the Obamacrats start mandating whether states recognize permit reciprocity, they will want to mandate what it takes to get and keep those permits.

    We’re talking about:
    • More onerous standards to acquire a permit, so that only FBI agents can pass muster (look at New York’s permit system);
    • Higher fees;
    • More training requirements;
    • A demonstration of “Need” for a permit;
    • More frequent renewal periods;
    • Federally-mandated waiting periods;
    • A national database of all permit holders, accessible by Attorney General Eric Holder;
    • An extensive, federally-created list of Criminal Safezones, where only criminals will carry and where law-abiding gun owners are vulnerable;
    • The list of potential problems is endless.
    I need you to call
    House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith at (202)225-4236 and make clear that you want to keep the government’s hands off your permit and that you oppose federal intrusion into the concealed weapons permit process.

    I haven’t even mentioned that this legislation would shred the Constitutional Carry provisions that are on the books in Arizona, Alaska, Vermont and Wyoming.

    It doesn’t stop with just concealed carry. They’ll co-opt the bill to expand the national Brady Registration Check system to block military veterans with PTSD or individuals with misdemeanor convictions from even OWNING firearms -- much less use them for self defense.

    I don’t believe the intentions of the bill sponsors are intrinsically bad -- they’re just naive and misguided.

    Many statists in Washington will co-opt H.R. 822 as part of their grab for more federal power and less individual liberty.

    Even now, the statists in Congress are trying to adopt a National ID card, complete with biometric data that they’ve forced the states to conform to their mandated drivers license “standards.” The National Association for Gun Rights has been part of a group of liberty-minded organizations which have passed state legislation forbidding cooperation with a National ID card.

    While many in the institutional gun control lobby will tell you this is a step forward for CCW permit holders, make no mistake, the National CCW Registration Act is a misguided attempt to protect our rights. It’s like asking the fox to guard the hen house.

    They will use this bill as the foundation to create a federal database of CCW permit holders. And then they can link it everywhere the Feds have database connections -- state police, doctors and insurance companies under Obamacare, and Medicaid/Medicare.

    I’m sorry, but I refuse to entrust my liberty and privacy to a “trust us, they won’t do that” approach to dealing with Obama, the gun-grabbers or frankly most politicians of either party in Washington.


    I need you to make some noise, right now!

    Here’s what you can do to help
    It’s imperative that we stop H.R. 822 -- the National CCW Registration Act -- before it gathers steam and support.

    Liberal Republicans and so-called “conservative” Democrats are looking for an easy “pro-gun” vote to give them cover before the next election.

    A Trojan Horse gun control bill like H.R. 822 is exactly the kind of legislation that will get support on both sides of the aisle in Washington D.C. And remember, the Democrat-controlled Senate has to pass it before it gets to Obama... so this bill will only get worse.

    That’s why you and I have to make noise, now!

    Please call
    House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith at 202-225-4236 and relay the message that gun owners oppose H.R. 822, the Trojan Horse gun control bill. Make clear that you want to keep the federal government’s hands off the state-run CCW permit system.

    Thank you for joining me in this important fight against the National CCW Registration Act.

    For Freedom,

    DWBsigBlue.jpg

    Dudley Brown
    Executive Director


    P.S. Please call
    House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith at 202-225-4236 and make clear that you want to keep the government’s hands off your permit. Tell him you oppose federal intrusion into the concealed weapons permit process.
     

    indpendnt

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    The whole bill is crap and should be flushed.
    My thought is that in the longer term a bill like this could be used to justify a national registry...
    For as good as it might look to some people on the surface, I'm thinking there's more gun control at it's root...
    Just my $0.02
     

    Mexican_Hippie

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    I just got this. If this is scare mongering it has worked. I'm officially concerned.

    Mexican_Hippie,

    As I type this, all-out war has been declared on your gun rights in Washington, D.C. by the House Judiciary Committee.

    Your National Association for Gun Rights has been warning you that H.R. 822 is a Trojan Horse.

    Just today, Republicans helped pass an amendment that orders the Feds to investigate the “safety” of mail-in CCW permits from states like Florida, Utah and New Hampshire.

    If you possess a NH, FL or UT permit, the Feds are going to investigate if these permits are “safe.”

    So-called “pro-gun” Republicans even KILLED an amendment that would have allowed permit holders to defend themselves in the District of Columbia, one of the most dangerous cities in the country.

    Over the past two days, amendments have been offered to require REAL ID-type government requirements on state CCW permits as well as giving Eric Holder the power to classify even more gun owners as “terrorists.”

    And while these amendments may have failed in the House, Harry Reid’s Senate is sure to put the screws to gun owners.

    The Senate DOES have the votes to impose a HOST of anti-gun amendments to H.R. 822 much like they have done with legislation in the past.

    While the institutional gun lobby has put its full support behind H.R. 822, gun owners just cannot afford for them to play poker with our gun rights.

    I have listed the phone numbers for every Republican on the Judiciary Committee below. Please make as many calls as you can expressing your displeasure with H.R. 822, but do it quickly before this monster gets even worse.

    -- Dudley

    Please call these numbers and demand that H.R. 822 be defeated at all costs:


    Rep.Lamar SmithR-TX202-225-4236
    Rep.Trent FranksR-AZ202-225-4576
    Rep.Darrell IssaR-CA202-225-3906
    Rep.Benjamin QuayleR-AZ202-225-3361
    Rep.Tim GriffinR-AZ202-225-2506
    Rep.Dan LungrenR-CA202-225-5716
    Rep.Elton GalleglyR-CA202-225-5811
    Rep.Dennis RossR-FL202-225-1252
    Rep.Sandy AdamsR-FL202-225-2706
    Rep.Mike PenceR-IN202-225-3021
    Rep.Steve KingR-IA202-225-4426
    Rep.Howard CobleR-NC202-225-3065
    Rep.Jim JordanR-OH202-225-2676
    Rep.Steve ChabotR-OH202-225-2216
    Rep.Tom MarinoR-PA202-225-3731
    Rep.Trey GowdyR-SC202-225-6030
    Rep.Louie GohmertR-TX202-225-3035
    Rep.Ted PoeR-TX202-225-6565
    Rep.Jason ChaffetzR-UT202-225-7751
    Rep.Bob GoodlatteR-VA202-225-5431
    Rep.Randy ForbesR-VA202-225-6365
    Rep.James Sensenbrenner, Jr.R-WI202-225-5101
     

    fenster700

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    I am not sure what to say other than this: it is next to impossible to know the whole truth, unless you were there to see it. I probably should pay more attention to things of this nature but IMO there is just so much information out there it too is next to impossible to sift through. Not to mention the amount of "spin" that is put into these things. Just like most things that may sound like a good or even great idea now, at this time, further down the road coupled with other "good" ideas we lose so much. Laws, bills, ratification, amendments, and all the other "modifications" that are passed are not void unless stricken or vetoed. I do not really think I need to spell it out but even if a law is 234 years old it is still a law and we are subject to that law. Bit by bit, piece by piece I fear "we the people" are losing our rights and our freedoms. I feel that at this point we have three ways to change things 1) clean up Washington D.C. through voting 2) revolt ( not necessarily violently ) to change Washington or 3) wait until the SHTF. I had a thought as I wrote the second item, it stands to reason those of you on this forum are fairly like minded. Unfortunately the vast majority of the population could really care less as long as they get what they want and by what they want I mean healthcare, "security", a McDonald's on every corner, welfare and a host of other things. I maybe leaving this a bit prematurely but I feel as though I could go on for hours about this.
     

    TexasFats

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    My thought is that in the longer term a bill like this could be used to justify a national registry...
    For as good as it might look to some people on the surface, I'm thinking there's more gun control at it's root...
    Just my $0.02

    I would be very shocked if more than two years went by without a movement to impose "uniform" federal standards for licensure. I can hear Chuck Schumer now, "We have to accept out-of-state carry permits so there must be a uniform standard for issuance of those permits. Otherwise, NYC will be over-run with crazy Texas gun nuts." Anybody want to bet what federal uniform standards would look like? Especially if the likes of Schumer, Boxer, Feinstein, Pelosi, et. al. had anything to do with writing them? Think of what Holder and Obama would propose.
     

    Texan2

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    I would be very shocked if more than two years went by without a movement to impose "uniform" federal standards for licensure. I can hear Chuck Schumer now, "We have to accept out-of-state carry permits so there must be a uniform standard for issuance of those permits. Otherwise, NYC will be over-run with crazy Texas gun nuts." Anybody want to bet what federal uniform standards would look like? Especially if the likes of Schumer, Boxer, Feinstein, Pelosi, et. al. had anything to do with writing them? Think of what Holder and Obama would propose.
    Which is why we should not support and federal law to regulate CHLs. Do they have a federal mandate for driver's licenses? marriage licenses? hunting licenses? fishing licenses? cosmotology licenses?
    10th amedment folks.
     

    Mexican_Hippie

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    Got an update.....

    H.R. 822, the Trojan Horse gun bill, has reached the House floor.

    This is the bill that I've been warning you about.

    It has serious potential to demolish some of the progress you and I have made with our gun rights and is currently waiting to be heard by the entire House of Representatives.

    I can't tell you how important it is for you to take action on this.

    A lot of people out there doubted me when I told them about the dangers of H.R. 822.

    But the fact of the matter is, I've had hundreds of phone calls in the last week from gun owners who are pretty upset at what has already happened.

    They were assured by the institutional gun lobby pushing H.R. 822 that it would never get amended.

    They were assured that, if anything were added to the bill, it would be pulled.

    And yet, here we are.

    H.R. 822 has already had amendments added to it, changing its entire language and then opening up even bigger doors for the gun-grabbers to jump through in the future.

    And to think, this was in a Republican-controlled committee -- prior to it even reaching the House floor!

    You need to know that this bill is on the move and that bad things are coming with it.

    The wording of H.R. 822 has already been changed to eliminate provisions for states' rights -- what's next?

    REAL ID provisions added in?

    Expansion of the term "terrorist" into concealed carry laws?

    Checkpoints at every highway leading into each state to "verify" your permit is valid?


    All of these ideas have not only been discussed but proposed in anti-gun circles as ideas for future amendments to this bill.

    As you know, it has to go to the Senate -- run by anti-gun champion Harry Reid -- if it passes the House.

    What I do need from you is your action -- today.

    I need you to call your Congressman at 202-224-3121 and tell them to oppose this bill.


    Tell your Congressman that you are pro-gun and that having federal hands on your concealed carry permit is unacceptable.

    And tell them as soon as possible.

    There isn't much time before this bill gets a full reading.

    When it does ...

    ... it's anyone's guess as to what ends up on it.

    Don't let that happen.

    Call your Congressman at 202-224-3121 and make it known that true pro-gun patriots like yourself are opposed to this bill.

    Don't let your Representatives be fooled into thinking this is a "pro-gun" vote.

    I'm telling you, H.R. 822 will be an ugly mark in the history of gun rights if it passes.

    Make sure your Congressman knows that.

    For Freedom,

    DWBsigBlue.jpg

    Dudley Brown
    Executive Director


    P.S. Please call
    your Congressman at 202-224-3121 and make clear that you want to keep the government’s hands off your permit. Tell your Congressman you oppose federal intrusion into the concealed weapons permit process.
     

    London

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    My thought is that in the longer term a bill like this could be used to justify a national registry...

    There is already a quarter-assed version of this in the form of the 4473. If you think the NICS isn't used for secret gun registration, you have more trust in Uncle Sam than I.
     

    Portals

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    I am tempted to believe this is the camel's nose.
    But my rep, John Carter, is a co-sponsor. And he is described as a "far-right republican leader"
    GovTrack has a graph of the voting records that looks like this. Carter is the black dot. with the left-right axis indicating ideology and the up-down axis representing legislative leadership.
    400068.png

    I'm going to call his office tomorrow to find out why he supports it.
     

    Vaquero

    Moving stuff to the gas prices thread.....
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    National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act to be voted on in the U.S. House of Representatives this week!

    On Tuesday, November 15, the U.S. House of Representatives will vote on H.R. 822, the "National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act." Please contact Representative Neugebauer and urge him to vote for this pro-gun legislation. This important bill would allow any law-abiding concealed carry permit holder to legally carry a concealed firearm while visiting any state that does not prohibit concealed carry.

    Please contact Rep. Neugebauer as soon as possible and urge him to vote for H.R. 822, the "National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act".

    Phone:
    Washington, DC
    (202) 225-4005

    Lubbock (806) 763-1611

    Email: http://www.capwiz.com/nra/issues/alert/?alertid=55111516

    The Facts About H.R. 822, the "National Right to Carry Reciprocity Act"
    Unfortunately, but predictably, H.R. 822 continues to be attacked by anti-gun organizations and the media. Regrettably, even some so-called "pro-gun" organizations have joined with the anti-gun Brady Campaign and Michael Bloomberg's Mayors Against Illegal Guns to try to defeat this pro-gun bill.
    This critically important legislation, introduced earlier this year by Congressmen Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.) and Heath Shuler (D-N.C.) and cosponsored by more than 240 of their colleagues, would enable millions of permit holders to exercise their right to self-defense while traveling outside their home states.
    There is currently only one remaining state (Illinois) that has no legal way for individuals to carry concealed firearms for self-defense. Forty states have permit systems that make it possible for any law-abiding person to obtain a permit, while most of the others have discretionary permit systems. (Vermont has never required a permit.)
    H.R. 822 would mark a major step forward for gun owners' rights by significantly expanding where permits are recognized. Dozens of states have passed Right-to-Carry laws over the past 25 years, because the right to self-defense does not end when one leaves home. However, interstate recognition of permits is not uniform and creates great confusion and potential problems for travelers. While many states have broad reciprocity, others have very restrictive reciprocity laws, and a few deny recognition completely.
    H.R. 822 would solve this problem by requiring that lawfully issued carry permits be recognized in all states with some form of a permit system, while protecting the ability of the various states to determine the areas where carrying is prohibited within their boundaries.
    Opponents of the legislation claim that it tramples on "states rights." States, however, don't have rights, they have powers. And while many anti-gun lawmakers who've long pushed national gun bans, national bans on private gun sales, national waiting periods and other federal restrictions have suddenly become born-again advocates of "states' rights" in opposing this bill, several provisions in the U.S. Constitution give Congress the authority to enact interstate carry. Congress also has the power to protect the rights of citizens, nationwide, under the 14th Amendment (please see related article from last week's Grassroots Alert).
    Next, despite what a few so-called "pro-gun" activists have argued, this bill would not create a federal licensing or registration system, nor would it establish a minimum federal standard for carry permits. Rather, it would require the states to recognize each others' carry permits, just as they recognize driver's licenses and carry permits held by armored car guards. Unfortunately, these self-proclaimed "gun rights" supporters, who have no active lobbying presence in any legislature, have an agenda that has very little to do with promoting the interests of gun owners. Here are the FACTS about a few of their claims:
    Myth: H.R. 822 would involve the federal bureaucracy in setting standards for carry permits, resulting in "need" requirements, higher fees, waiting periods, national gun owner registration, or worse.
    FACT: H.R. 822 doesn't require-or even authorize-any such action by any federal agency. In fact, since it would amend the Gun Control Act, it would fall under a limitation within that law that authorizes "only such rules and regulations as are necessary to carry out" the GCA's provisions. No federal rules or regulations would be needed to implement H.R. 822, which simply overrides certain state laws.
    Myth: H.R. 822 would destroy permitless carry systems such as those in Arizona, Alaska, Vermont and Wyoming.
    FACT: H.R. 822 would have absolutely no effect on how the permitless carry states' laws work within those states. For residents of Arizona, Alaska and Wyoming, where permits are not required but remain available under state law, H.R. 822 would make those permits valid in all states that issue permits to their own residents. Residents of Vermont, where no permits are issued or required, could obtain nonresident permits from other states to enjoy the benefits of H.R. 822.
    Myth: If H.R. 822 moved through the legislative process, it would be subject to anti-gun amendments.
    TRUTH: By this logic, neither NRA, nor any other pro-gun group, should ever promote any pro-gun reform legislation. But inaction isn't an option for those of us who want to make positive changes for gun owners. Instead, we know that by careful vote counting and strategic use of legislative procedure, anti-gun amendments can be avoided or defeated.
    H.R. 822 is a good bill for gun owners. Don't listen to false or misleading accusations; instead, read the bill and our fact sheet explaining its provisions. Then, please contact your member of Congress and urge him or her to support the earliest possible consideration of H.R. 822 this year.
    Please contact Representative Neugebauer at (202) 225-4005 or by email by clicking here and urge him to stand up for gun owners' rights by voting for this important legislation.









    The NRA is for it.​
     

    smtimelevi

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    Im not. I believe we dont need to pass any new laws just enforce the ones we already have. Full Faith and Credit just needs to be enforced.

    If the second amendment was enforced none of this would be an issue. Theres always a constant battle with this type of stuff. We have 535 ass hats that argue over what 300 million + people are allowed to do in a FREE COUNTRY. :banghead:
     

    Mexican_Hippie

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    No doubt. As per my legal interpretation we've always been able to carry, even without a permit. However, it used to be a large hassle with the whole police, prison and all.

    My interpretation of the 2nd amendment is that no legal entity in the US has legal authority to write ANY law regarding ownership or carry of firearms. It's called freedom. We should stop paying it lip service and actually exercise it.
     
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