Navy Seal Charged with war crimes

[Younggun]

Using your logic, same applies to the ISIS fighter, who have no "rules".
Keep trying ...

I agree. Someone shouldn't join ISIS unless they are willing to follow the rules of ISIS. Hence my lack of sympathy for the stupid women that joined them and now want out.

And they have rules. But their rules are foreign to us because we are not psychotic animals and value human life. Hence the reason our soldiers are also not allowed to rape women and children when entering a city. Ya know, we have different rules. Don't join if you don't want to follow them.

Keep tryin...

 

[deemus]

I can see the issue with him sniping at civilians. Though I would guess he thought they were insurgents. But the ISIS guy?

I was under the impression we sent them over there to kill ISIS.

 

[karlac]

I can see the issue with him sniping at civilians. Though I would guess he thought they were insurgents. But the ISIS guy?

I was under the impression we sent them over there to kill ISIS.

Only until the lawyers and politicians in uniform can make career points ... then the grunt gets the short end of the stick.

 

[birddog]

YG, I understand the issue of morality particularly with firing on civilians when your ROE prohibits doing so (without going into all the nit-picky details for the sake of simplicity). But a wounded combatant is a threat. Without a clearly defined opord stating to the contrary, eliminating a threat is the goal.

How does morality fit into that? You have a valid argument when you look at the moral and ethical aspect of killing but combat is a different species of beast. Seeing it on the screen cannot be compared to the experience.

Training, conditioning, the desire to live, fear, anger, sadness, confusion, awareness, there are SO many emotions going through your mind you don’t have time to think about it. You just do it. If you obsessed over the moral dilemmas about the combatant you just shot you’d be ineffective. That can be a death sentence to both you and your teammates.

 

[Younggun]

YG, I understand the issue of morality particularly with firing on civilians when your ROE prohibits doing so (without going into all the nit-picky details for the sake of simplicity). But a wounded combatant is a threat. Without a clearly defined opord stating to the contrary, eliminating a threat is the goal.

How does morality fit into that? You have a valid argument when you look at the moral and ethical aspect of killing but combat is a different species of beast. Seeing it on the screen cannot be compared to the experience.

Training, conditioning, the desire to live, fear, anger, sadness, confusion, awareness, there are SO many emotions going through your mind you don’t have time to think about it. You just do it. If you obsessed over the moral dilemmas about the combatant you just shot you’d be ineffective. That can be a death sentence to both you and your teammates.

The combatant was captured, per the article I read. Maybe things changed since I was there, but during my time POWs weren’t to be stabbed to death.

This also came out do you guys in his platoon (maybe Navy has a different name, team?) reported it after being threatened with retribution if they spoke out. That heightens my suspicions that this wasn’t in the heat of battle.

Maybe he was suffering severe PRSD at that point, IDK. Doesn’t seem like the defense is going in that direction though.


And I’m not talking about anything on the screen. I did my time in Iraq.


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[karlac]

YG, I understand the issue of morality particularly with firing on civilians when your ROE prohibits doing so (without going into all the nit-picky details for the sake of simplicity). But a wounded combatant is a threat. Without a clearly defined opord stating to the contrary, eliminating a threat is the goal.

How does morality fit into that? You have a valid argument when you look at the moral and ethical aspect of killing but combat is a different species of beast. Seeing it on the screen cannot be compared to the experience.

Training, conditioning, the desire to live, fear, anger, sadness, confusion, awareness, there are SO many emotions going through your mind you don’t have time to think about it. You just do it. If you obsessed over the moral dilemmas about the combatant you just shot you’d be ineffective. That can be a death sentence to both you and your teammates.

I agree, although this apparently wasn't done "in the heat of combat".

Then again, "malice aforethought" arguably has no place in second guessing when a lethal force, for that is what an ISIS fighter represents, can be dispatched in a combat zone.

I understand the Geneva Convention, but I don't call in Terminix to show mercy to cockroaches.

 

[birddog]

If the guy was threatening his teammates with retribution that tends to suggest he may have crossed the line. Either way, I’d hate to be in his shoes.

 

[Younggun]

I agree, although this apparently wasn't done "in the heat of combat".

Then again, "malice aforethought" arguably has no place in second guessing when a lethal force, for that is what an ISIS fighter represents, can be dispatched in a combat zone.

I understand the Geneva Convention, but I don't call in Terminix to show mercy to cockroaches.

I don’t think we will reach much agreement here so I’m gonna bow out.

Gonna get back to the gun stuff and HiPoint bashing.




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[karlac]

I don’t think we will reach much agreement here so I’m gonna bow out.

Gonna get back to the gun stuff and HiPoint bashing.

Business as usual for bofus.
And, as usual, no hard feelings.
You are a worthy debater ...

ETA: and, always, amazed at how fast you can type on that damn phone.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Some of y’all seem to not understand Rules of Engagement apply to the military and they cover more than just who you can engage. And under what circumstances. The ROE has a specific chapter on treatment of Enemy Prisoners of War (EPWs).

Additionally, ordering subordinates to lie about it is not just obstruction, it’s an illegal order, one not to be obeyed.

These alleged acts, committed by a senior noncommissioned officer and enlisted leader, constitutes failing to obey direct orders, undermining the entire military concept of good order and discipline, which is wholly unacceptable.

What you see in this article is the prime reason why we take an oath to protect and defend a document, and to obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. You don’t just get to phone it in and get your lawyer to shed crocodile tears trying to convince Congress to backup the decision break that oath.

 

[birddog]

I can see the issue with him sniping at civilians. Though I would guess he thought they were insurgents. But the ISIS guy?

I was under the impression we sent them over there to kill ISIS

Civilian combatants make for complicated dynamics.

 

[karlac]

Some of y’all seem to not understand Rules of Engagement apply to the military and they cover more than just who you can engage.

If you can write that, then you also understand that ROE's, just like "the battle plan", rarely survive the battle intact.

 

[toddnjoyce]

If you can write that, then you also understand that ROE's, just like "the battle plan", rarely survive the battle intact.

I hear what your saying, but shit don’t change that wildly, that fast. Especially when it concerns non-combatants and EPWs.

 

[FireInTheWire]

 

[seeker_two]

Easy solution....stop taking prisoners.

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[nlghthawk]

If what I heard was true he isn't right in the head. I hope there is an alternative story and bless him and his family.

 

[vmax]

That poor isis pow

And his poor family..

 

[vmax]

Thinking back to another seal team mission..if those seals that were on Operation Red Wings had have went ahead and killed those Afghan Goat herder insurgents, none of the Hell that came down killing all of Marcus Lutrells team and that whole helo full of the rescue teams wouldn't have happened and they would be alive today
Lots of widows and orphaned American children that day that we traded for the lives of those POS

 

[majormadmax]

Don't believe what you see in the movies...

 

[Army 1911]

Don't believe what you see in the movies...

The movies only get one thing right. The Titanic always sinks.