Oh boy a red dot optics thread

[FoxHound]

It's been talked to death, I know I know

but I want personal experiences, reviews etc.
I've personally tried the aimpoint micro and the original Ncell Eotech and I loved them both. Great red dots and very rugged. High quality stuff. But is it worth the money? If I was a LEO or military, then yes. Not so sure as just a sport shooter/hunter. I understand that "you get what you pay for" and that purchasing either an aimpoint or eotech just once is a lifetime purchase and that settling for a clone brand opens you up for risk of having to buy another optic later on.

But when is it "good enough"?

In my search for a quality budget optic, I ran across several companies, most notably Vortex and C-more.
I understand Bushnell and Burris make some quality optics as well, so I'll have them on the table as well. Vortex has some pretty nice reviews, but any of you ever actually handled one? I imagine the StrikeFire 30mm tube red dot could do the job just fine.
Personally, I prefer the field of view the eotech HUD provides over the 30mm tube style of Aimpoint sites and clones... but if it means having a quality red dot, a magnifier (with mount), and plenty of cash left over for AMMO (the most important part about owning firearms... why have a nice gun just sit in the safe?)... then why not?

I did have a look at the C-more ATACS and was impressed by its quality and price range but its length turned me off... that sucker looks like it takes a lot of rail space.

Not that it matters since I'm not some operating operator doing operations or anything, but having all my tools use up the same battery type would be convenient. All my flashlights are CR123, and Eotechs use CR123s whereas most other optics use the CR2 battery. So thats a slight factor.


the vortex strikefire with neat little magnifier side mount: Vortex VMX3 Magnifier with Swing Mount Combo - YouTube
C-more ATACS (under $200) - c-more - YouTube

Share with me your experiences, oh budget bargain hunters

 

[M. Sage]

I disagree with and can't understand the "field of view" argument between EOTech and Aimpoint. You use either one with both eyes open, giving you identical field of view.

 

[FoxHound]

I disagree with and can't understand the "field of view" argument between EOTech and Aimpoint. You use either one with both eyes open, giving you identical field of view.

Well discussing field of view isnt the heart of this thread, and it really doesnt involve the fact that you shoot with both eyes open. Thats an obvious given about red dot optics

When I mean by field of view pertaining to each sights individual HUD/glass style, is by its shape, size, and parts around it
I found the aimpoint 30mm tube circle style do be a little distracting compared to how much quicker I was able to get on target with the eotech

I'll try to explain my reasoning with some pictures but its hard for me to explain it efficiently and I just summarize it as the field of view given the type of HUD/glass style the scope has

vs

 

[FoxHound]

Personal preference is basically what its all about.
But like I said, I'm willing to look past that if it saves me $350+

So on the core of my thread... anyone have experiences with Vortex, C-more, etc etc

 

[shooterfpga]

lots of people like primary arms and vortex. try em out if you dont like it sell or trade up for a better one. ived used and owned both ainpoint and eotechs. i liked the eotechs much better for rds and aimpoints for magnifiers. however, im looking at the new aimpoint pro.

 

[FoxHound]

lots of people like primary arms and vortex. try em out if you dont like it sell or trade up for a better one. ived used and owned both ainpoint and eotechs. i liked the eotechs much better for rds and aimpoints for magnifiers. however, im looking at the new aimpoint pro.

Yeah I gave Primary Arms a glance as well and its on the backburner. Usually anything under $100 makes me skeptical, but they have some scopes for a little under $200 that look like decent clones.

I usually like to focus on brands that have had "stress tests" done on them by users and look at their reviews. Not a fan of nutnfancy (dude takes too much time to talk about something that can be reviewed in under 10 minutes) but I like that he does a lot of stress testing on courses for a lot of products. His video about the Vortex red dots got me interested in trying to find a reliable, rugged quality budget optic that can compete with the big boys (eotech and aimpoint).

I cant seem to find field test reviews on the C-More red dots. And most primary arms red dot videos I've seen are just guys taking out their safe queen range toy out once every quarter to fire 3 magazines or so. I want to see some mud, dropping the scopes, firing thousands of rounds and checking to see if it held zero etc. Rough stress tests.

So unfortunately it breaks down to me having to by word of mouth to gauge individual experiences. Figured someone out there has to be a bargain hunter as well that has had a pleasant experience with something

 

[PopsXD9sc]

Don't sell Primary Arms short. Their products get great reviews on AR15.com and other AR forums. I ran a PA M4 on my AR for about three years before I just had to have an Eotech. Put an XPS2-0 on the AR and honestly I can't tell enough difference to justify the $350 difference. But, that's just me.

 

[M. Sage]

Well discussing field of view isnt the heart of this thread, and it really doesnt involve the fact that you shoot with both eyes open. Thats an obvious given about red dot optics

When I mean by field of view pertaining to each sights individual HUD/glass style, is by its shape, size, and parts around it
I found the aimpoint 30mm tube circle style do be a little distracting compared to how much quicker I was able to get on target with the eotech

I'll try to explain my reasoning with some pictures but its hard for me to explain it efficiently and I just summarize it as the field of view given the type of HUD/glass style the scope has

View attachment 14467 vs

I realize it's not at the heart of this thread, but it did get mentioned.

The pics demonstrate nothing, since they represent a sight picture with only one eye open. If these sights are being used correctly, there is zero difference in field of view.

 

[FoxHound]

I realize it's not at the heart of this thread, but it did get mentioned.

The pics demonstrate nothing, since they represent a sight picture with only one eye open. If these sights are being used correctly, there is zero difference in field of view.

True true, I did mention it so I guess its fair game. I was using both sights correctly, but the style of the sights HUD can affect target acquisition and target awareness around the HUD. If you dont have any issues with these, right on. I had a SLIGHT issue with some of the bigger aimpoints and preferred the HUD style of the eotech. It's a mental thing and mostly personal preference, but a small rectangular HUD gives me better vision and acquisition than a circle 30mm tube with hardware hanging off around it on the edges. I understand it should blur out if you focus on the red dot, but the eotech was just a bit superior from my use.

thats all there is to it when it comes to my FOV preference. It was barely an issue at all, just something I felt worth mentioning on why I preferred the eotech. It's HUD feels cleaner and less distracting

 

[FoxHound]

Don't sell Primary Arms short. Their products get great reviews on AR15.com and other AR forums. I ran a PA M4 on my AR for about three years before I just had to have an Eotech. Put an XPS2-0 on the AR and honestly I can't tell enough difference to justify the $350 difference. But, that's just me.

thanks for your input.

Hopefully I'll have a chance to check out the next gun show and get a hands on feel for those scopes

 

[M. Sage]

True true, I did mention it so I guess its fair game. I was using both sights correctly, but the style of the sights HUD can affect target acquisition and target awareness around the HUD. If you dont have any issues with these, right on. I had a SLIGHT issue with some of the bigger aimpoints and preferred the HUD style of the eotech. It's a mental thing and mostly personal preference, but a small rectangular HUD gives me better vision and acquisition than a circle 30mm tube with hardware hanging off around it on the edges. I understand it should blur out if you focus on the red dot, but the eotech was just a bit superior from my use.

thats all there is to it when it comes to my FOV preference. It was barely an issue at all, just something I felt worth mentioning on why I preferred the eotech. It's HUD feels cleaner and less distracting

I don't even notice the optics or the rifle anymore. I hardly even notice the dot; it feels like I'm just looking where I want to hit.

 

[FoxHound]

I don't even notice the optics or the rifle anymore. I hardly even notice the dot; it feels like I'm just looking where I want to hit.

More reason for me to practice more I guess
I'm about to buy an optic and then bulk buy some ammo, so in my spare time I've been googling googling googling and scowering the YouTube underverse for SOME REASON to not buy an Eotech. If there's a decent budget optic, that just means more ammo for me to blow cash on. And as we all know, actually having ammo to go practice at the range is priority over having sexy little optics and tacticool accesories and have it sitting in our safe all year long all neglected.

From your experiences with aimpoints, which model did you prefer and why?
I tried the micro and the comp (spelling?) and really I could only honestly buy the micro if i had to buy an aimpoint. Very compact, sleek. It does the job exceedingly well

 

[itchin]

So You are trying to justify buying a fake aimpoint? There is plenty of info out there on the web about these. If I was going to buy a cheap optic I'd just get the millet scope. At the New Braunfels shoot lasy weekend Kyle had a fake aimpoint made by walther, and it was bright out there in the sun. He said he likes it for $60, and has never let him down.

 

[FoxHound]

Walther... as in the firearms company? Huh I'll have to check it out

So You are trying to justify buying a fake aimpoint? There is plenty of info out there on the web about these. If I was going to buy a cheap optic I'd just get the millet scope. At the New Braunfels shoot lasy weekend Kyle had a fake aimpoint made by walther, and it was bright out there in the sun. He said he likes it for $60, and has never let him down.

 

[itchin]

I guess, the same company. It looked like an aimpoint, and had a 4 moa dot. He said it was made by walther. I was surprised how bright it was out there in the sun. I have a aimpoint pro, and a eotech xps. They are both great optics, but I believe the pro is the best bang for the buck. I'm sure you have read the many threads on here about this topic. If you are patient and shop around you can find used eotechs for cheap. Personally, I am the type of person who believes in buy once cry once. Use open sights til you can afford a decent one. That is what I would do. That being said, if you wanna try out my optics, You are more than welcome, as I am also in San Antonio. I also have a TA31f, but sounds like you are set on a red dot or holo.

 

[FoxHound]

I guess, the same company. It looked like an aimpoint, and had a 4 moa dot. He said it was made by walther. I was surprised how bright it was out there in the sun. I have a aimpoint pro, and a eotech xps. They are both great optics, but I believe the pro is the best bang for the buck. I'm sure you have read the many threads on here about this topic. If you are patient and shop around you can find used eotechs for cheap. Personally, I am the type of person who believes in buy once cry once. Use open sights til you can afford a decent one. That is what I would do. That being said, if you wanna try out my optics, You are more than welcome, as I am also in San Antonio. I also have a TA31f, but sounds like you are set on a red dot or holo.

where do you normally shoot?

And yeah, I hear ya. You get what you pay for. I have it in my mind that I'm getting an eotech exps2 or 3-4 (I dont really care for NV mode... I mean, really? but the 4 5.56 ballistic dots was nifty) and I'm trying to find any justifiable reason to settle for a budget optic.

I already have this Leupold** AR15 scope my friend gave me so I'm set on getting myself a red dot to shoot with both eyes open.

 

[itchin]

Either cedar ridge, or bexar community. I did shoot at dietz last weekend, and the rifle range is decent. I am sure people will give you plenty of reasons to buy a fakepoint. That is Your decision. That said I believe the pro is going for under $400 now a days. I havent seen a decent fake eotech though. All of the decent counterfeits have been aimpoint clones.

 

[M. Sage]

More reason for me to practice more I guess
I'm about to buy an optic and then bulk buy some ammo, so in my spare time I've been googling googling googling and scowering the YouTube underverse for SOME REASON to not buy an Eotech. If there's a decent budget optic, that just means more ammo for me to blow cash on. And as we all know, actually having ammo to go practice at the range is priority over having sexy little optics and tacticool accesories and have it sitting in our safe all year long all neglected.

From your experiences with aimpoints, which model did you prefer and why?
I tried the micro and the comp (spelling?) and really I could only honestly buy the micro if i had to buy an aimpoint. Very compact, sleek. It does the job exceedingly well

I'd much rather have the Micro, just to save a little weight. On a budget, I'd go with an PRO for around $400.

I've had two EOTechs, sold both. I dislike the short battery life and lack of mounting options. I've got an Aimpoint Comp M2, low wide 30mm ring and an Ultimak rail on my AK, and the setup gives me a 1/3 cowitness. An EOTech isn't practical to run on anything but an AR because the height is what it is.

One thing you might want to give a look is a 1-4 power scope. I'm running one now on my AR and couldn't be happier. At 1x it's just as fast as one of the other two, but you've got a built in (and adjustable!) magnifier. The only real downside is weight.

 

[tussery]

Prefer the weight savings of the Micro also. I have run a M3L, XP2, and H-1. Started with a M3L I eventually went with an EOTech XPS2 and that saved weight, but mainly wanted the reticle. When I got a magnifier I finally got to the point where if I had that much weight I may as well have a 1-4x scope. Replaced the XPS2 and Magnifier with a NightForce 1-4x.

Then I picked up my M&P15 Magpul Spec rifle and wanted to keep it as light as possible so I stole the H-1 I had on my AK and put it on the AR.

Field of view is nothing I noticed on any of the red dots, and by FoxHound's example of FOV the Micro is better anyways...

 

[BMiracleTX]

I started out with an EOTech and HATED it! I hated the reticle. Sold it and went with an Aimpoint Pro with 2 MOA dot for $400 shipped! Never looked back. Love the sight, small dot. Never noticed much difference of "clutter" over the EOTech. When shooting fast close targets both eyes are open with no probs, more precise shooting close eye and sight through like a scope. I can reliably hit 10/10 on an 8" gong at 200 yards all day long with the Aimpoint. With the EOTech the reticle covered up the entire gond and I could not sight correctly. While good for close up shots, I think the EOTech really suffers at longer range precise shooting. Really, it just comes down to personal preference. I liked the Aimpoint better than EOTech.