OK, took the subtle hint: How about scrapping the CHL for something NEW.....

Discussion in 'Gun Legislation' started by kaidorsai, Mar 20, 2008.

  1. kaidorsai

    kaidorsai New Member

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    Mar 3, 2008
    Ft. Hood, TX
    First off, relax.

    I am not a GunBanner. I am just doing some thinking out loud.

    Here are some thoughts: The CHL is a good thing in todays age. With Terrorism hanging over our heads, and Active Shooter scenarios played out in Colorado, Virginia, Texas and other places, it is generally a good idea to be armed.

    But, let us look at this for a sec. Concealed HANDGUN License. OK, say we come into the Parks in Arlington or Grapevine Mills. Shots ring out, deep heavy booms that you automatically know are NOT someones 9MM or .45. All you have is your 9MM and an extra mag. What are you gonna do?

    Me, I am heading to the sound of the guns. My family Would/Should be safe behind me, my wife and I have diagramed this many times. I have a moral and social obligation to save lives if I cqn. THAT is not in doubt. Even the Police acknowledge that they cannot get there in time to save lives as most shootings take place in the first 3 minutes.

    My problem, is ballistics. I carry a .45, sometimes a 9MM. Ol boy is carrying an SKS or shotgun. He can outrange me any day of the week. He MAY be wearing bodyarmor (North Hollywood and I believe Dylan and Klebold as well). Do I engage in a obviously misatched firefight and take the chance of someone else or me being shot? or do I carry the right weapon and end it decisively from cover?

    How about a Concealed WEAPON License. There are categories of pistols that are based on the AR, and AK. These, TO THE BEST OF MY LIMITED KNOWLEDGE, are not considerd SBR's or NFA weapons. They can be carried easily, used the same as full size brethren and have the capability of deceively ending a AD scenario.

    Or PDW's. While these will most likely need a Class III (I am unsure) it is still a resource that can and should be researched. HK MP7. FN P90 or P2000. Small, concealable and can do the job.

    Me, I simply cannot aford one of those types at the moment. But, One source I trust says we are NOT ready to defend or resolve Active Shooter Scenario's should they come in multiples, or even a Beslan style raid. I DO believe in the concept that someone CAN end AN AD Scenario in its infancy, LONG before the PD can gather its resources, with the right equipment. It simply is a matter of todays reality.

    This is an idea simply in a nutshell. I wanted to see what you folks think first.

    Les
     


  2. TxShooter

    TxShooter Member

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    Mar 16, 2008
    Houston Metro Area
    Obligation?

    While you may feel you have a social or moral obligation to go running to the fight, I feel you may be going a little overboard. While it is admirable that you feel as you do, it would be almost sheer insanity for you to take action in the manner you have described. If you are in the immediate area and your family is safe and secure, and ou feel you can save lives with your action (including your own) feel free to take action. Do not go running blindly into the fight. By running into the fight you have suddenly become a target for responding LEO's as you will easily be mistaken for the active shooter. Even plainclothes, off-duty and undercover LEO's need to be extremely careful of thier response in this type of situation.

    In Active Shooter training officers are taught to immediately assess the situation and take action against any possible threat. You, Armed, In a Public place after a call of a ctive shooter have suddenly become a target for first responders. Police will not identify themselves and alert you to their presence. They will simply stop what they believe to be the threat, YOU. You would complicate these matters more by using any weapon that may be out of the norm for a off duty LEO or CHL Holder. Any assualt type weapon and there will be no question in responding officer's minds that you are the threat!!!

    For what it's worth, my advice to you simply would be to protect yourself and your family and get out of the area as quickly as possibly can in a safe manner. This is your duty and obligation to yourself and your family.
     
  3. JKTex

    JKTex Well-Known

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    Mar 11, 2008
    DFW, North Texas
    A CHL or the basic right to be armed, s intended for you to be able to defend yourself, family and others. Not go running into a gun fight for no other reason than to get the bad guy. Law Enforcement gets that task, and like TXShooter said, you'll complicate matters and could get yourself killed.

    Unless of course you've been able to get acknowledgment from a LEO that they want your help. That'll usually be if they are in trouble, but you need to have that acknowledgment or request from them so you have liability protection.
     
  4. Texas1911

    Texas1911 TGT Addict

    May 29, 2017
    Austin, TX
    I think it's a license of opportunity. If you can engage the BG on equal ground and accurately put him out of commission then I think it's your duty, and also your right, to defend others.

    If the guy is wearing body armor, and has a rifle, you obviously are at a great disadvantage and are best to secure those around you and get them to safety. This situation has actually been played out in Texas before, two CHL holders have been killed trying to engage armored BG's with rifles.

    That being said, the best thing you can do is to get those around you to safety, and if you so choose, ambush the BG using terrain and cover to your advantage.

    Don't forget you have a duty to your family to remain alive.
     
  5. Texas1911

    Texas1911 TGT Addict

    May 29, 2017
    Austin, TX
    In regards to your idea regarding rifles and SBR's. I don't think it's a good idea. The public is far to fearsome of "assault" weapons and it would just be an incredible hassle not only to LEO's, but to the gun owners.

    The other aspect is that it would be harder to distinguish nutjob shooters, and would make the public complacent towards carbines in public. It would allow them to get closer to their prey, and also recognize you as a threat. The benefit to concealment is the surprise factor.
     
  6. TxShooter

    TxShooter Member

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    Mar 16, 2008
    Houston Metro Area
    Simply as I early stated a officer responding and seeing a weapon of that type would immediately take action against the weapon holder rightfully believing at the time that the individual was the Active Shooter and a threat.
     
  7. Texas1911

    Texas1911 TGT Addict

    May 29, 2017
    Austin, TX
    Yep. It would be a confusing situation.
     
  8. JKTex

    JKTex Well-Known

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    Mar 11, 2008
    DFW, North Texas
    Ya, but if we wear white hats and the BG's wear black hats...... :rofl:
     
  9. Texas1911

    Texas1911 TGT Addict

    May 29, 2017
    Austin, TX
    Spy vs. Spy :D
     
  10. stockFD3S

    stockFD3S Active Member

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    Apr 19, 2008
    Leon Valley, TX
    Problem solved ... AK pistol.

    [​IMG]
     

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