Opinions on best AK

[M. Sage]

AKs do not shoot on par with ARs. I'm sorry, I've shot far too many of them to say that is not a normal occurrence. The higher end AKs will do about 2 - 3 MOA, which is plenty decent, and near a run of the mill AR. The WASR, is a pile of junk that is lucky to hit the broad side of a barn at anything beyond 200 yards.

Not at range, and not with the better ARs, no. But you add an Aimpoint Comp M2 or EOTech to an AK and watch out. The matches I played in were run-and-gun for the most part, and no shots over 70 yards. Before I moved, using my "featureless" AK with no pistol grip or anything, I was leaving guys with registered rifles that had all the ooh-ahhs on them in the dust without hardly trying to.

Of course, I looked at how a Garand trigger worked (Garands are actually almost identical to the AK part-for-part - there's no doubt in my mind that Kalashnikov ripped off Garand's baby by simply rearranging parts, which took a bit of genius in and of itself) and copied the way it gives a bit of a two-stage function - the disconnect pushes against the hammer just before release to give increased load at the breaking point. Then I lightened it with plastic stocks, added a good brake (the slant compensator is almost useless, and is not designed for modern tactical rifle shooting methods) and the optics. Bam! World-beater.

 

[Mate]

I've said it before, just because you have a nice/expensive/one of a kind something dosent mean you know how to run it.

If you were to pit to people with the same skill set against each other, then that would be a fair match, and the guy with the superior weapon system would come out on top.

 

[Texas1911]

Not at range, and not with the better ARs, no. But you add an Aimpoint Comp M2 or EOTech to an AK and watch out. The matches I played in were run-and-gun for the most part, and no shots over 70 yards. Before I moved, using my "featureless" AK with no pistol grip or anything, I was leaving guys with registered rifles that had all the ooh-ahhs on them in the dust without hardly trying to.

Inside of 100 Yards an AK is certainly capable. Start pushing it out to 200 - 300 Yards and I'll stick to an AR / M1 platform.

I'm sure there is alot of shooter ability to be discerned between the two, because an expensive rifle does not translate into a good shooter. I see that every day I'm at work, and plenty are mall-ninja types.

 

[Navarone]

I like yugo's and maadi myself. But ill take a GP WASR-10 and use the extra cash left over to get a custom Stock/trigger job/trijicon reflex and still keep it under a grand.

And id like to mention the AK47 technically is not a original design. It was a rip off of the German STG44 in 7.62x33 which is just as reliable.

During WWII, the germans did a study showing that most engagements were at 300m or less, most of those at 200m or less. They thus made a selective fire gun with the controllable firepower of an SMG and the accuracy and power of their larger intermediate range rifles. They shortened the round so that it would have less recoil. (StG-44) The British and Americans both criticized the weapon for being unreliable, but actually performed quite well in combat.

The AK-47 was basically a Soviet clone of the same gun, but could be made for cheaper.

...and so the Assault Rifle was born.

 

[M. Sage]

No, the Stg-44 is a tilt-locking design more like the G-43. The AK and StG are only similar in basic layout and that they fire an intermediate cartridge. The Russians accepted the intermediate 7.62x39mm cartridge in 1943.

Believe me: the AK has a lot more in common as far as how it operates with the Garand than it does with the Stg-44.

 

[Hawghauler]

Do yourself a favor and check out the Arsenal Inc AKs. Milled receiver and great quality. They cost more not surprisingly.

http://www.arsenalinc.com/

 

[robertba12]

Great responses...I actually have an Bush-AR in 5.56/.223 it is an amazing firearm. I have always wanted a less expensive AK just to play with, decided against the SKS due to stripper clip loading. I put together some ranks for message boards of the ones I am looking at to check out at the next show, let me know your thoughts:

· Russian (VEPR)
· US/Bulgarian (Arsenal)
· Hungarian SA85
· Chinese (Norinco)
· Bulgarian (SSR-85C2)
· Egyptian (Maadi)
· Romanian SAR
· Romanian WASR-10

I think I am going to stay away from the top three or so due to cost. Are there any others in the middle to lower ranks anyone would recommend from personal experience?

 

[Hondo]

Great responses...I actually have an Bush-AR in 5.56/.223 it is an amazing firearm. I have always wanted a less expensive AK just to play with, decided against the SKS due to stripper clip loading. I put together some ranks for message boards of the ones I am looking at to check out at the next show, let me know your thoughts:

· Russian (VEPR)
· US/Bulgarian (Arsenal)
· Hungarian SA85
· Chinese (Norinco)
· Bulgarian (SSR-85C2)
· Egyptian (Maadi)
· Romanian SAR
· Romanian WASR-10

I think I am going to stay away from the top three or so due to cost. Are there any others in the middle to lower ranks anyone would recommend from personal experience?

Out of that list minus the top three of course, I like the Bulgarian SSR-85C the best, I personally do not own one however I have shot one that a friend owns numerous times. Fit and finish is good, sights are straight and the gas block isn't canted, has a slight trigger slap. I do own three SAR's Sar1, Sar2, and Sar3 if you look at one, check and make sure the front sight or gas block isn't canted or crooked. Also SAR's can have a nasty trigger slap, doesn't bother some folks but it did me, replaced the FCG on all three.

 

[Man With A Gun...]

Norinco all the way. 50% thicker receiver, Thicker barrel, the smoothest double hook trigger, and nice fit and finish. Most shit made in china is usually crap EXCEPT their AK's...

 

[goodfellas]

As much as i love my Maadi if you can find a milled Norinco jump on it. Any of those rifles will serve you real well Just check for Cant and you will be fine. As far as trigger slap just get a G2 and be done with it

 

[Libertarian_Longhorn]

I'll take an AK or SKS anyday over an AR; except if I'm punching paper at over 200 yds, which honestly rarely happens.

 

[Hawghauler]

Go all the way and get an M1A

 

[M. Sage]

... for triple the price.

 

[Navarone]

.. and nearly double the weight and ammo cost.

But for some of us that is not an issue anyway. If you can afford a M1A im pretty sure you can afford the ammo for it.

 

[Texas1911]

... for triple the price.

A loaded is $1500 - 1600 compared to a decent AK for $600 - 800.

Big difference, but honestly the M1A is twice the gun if you are looking for accuracy.

Regardless, it's a bit off-topic. We should probably stick to AKs, otherwise the thread will turn into a "this gun is better than that gun" argument.

 

[ROGER4314]

but it's as accurate as most ARs out there; more accurate than the person at the controls.
=============================================================

AK-47's are way cool and I like them a lot. I have several and constantly fight off my friends who want to buy them. AK-47's however, will NOT shoot with an AR-15!

I have been a match competitor for years. I'll try just about any rifle as long as it is consistant. I've attempted many times to make an AK work decently in a 200 yard match and it's just not going to happen! In fact, I got a second place with a stock YUGO SKS at a 200 yard match so if it will shoot decently, I can get into position and make it work.

I've competed with SKS, AR-15's, M1A's, 1903A3, scoped "F" class rifles in .223 and .308, M1 Garands, Match rifles, .17 HMR and .22LR rifles a few others. All I asked of a rifle is shoot well enough to let the win or loss be depending on what I did as the shooter. The AK simply won't allow that. Rounds hit at random points and no amount of windage or elevation tweeking will keep them in the "black" at 200 yards.

Being specific, will the AK-47 hit a man sized object at 100, 200 yards? Sure! At 200 yards, will the AK consistantly hit an 11" diameter "black" area on a SR or MR 200 yard target? Absolutely not. The other rifles listed above will do that all day long.

Flash

 

[M. Sage]

I've sat down and had very consistent hits on a torso-size target at 300 yards over the course of several magazines one day. The target was a two-drawer file cabinet. I'd be surprised if it was 20" across.

Then again, I was running an Aimpoint, not the crappy sights the rifle came with - what windage and elevation tweaking?

 

[ROGER4314]

what windage and elevation tweaking?
================================================================

Keeping those hits in a 20" target circle at 200 yards will put get you a "miss" score or perhaps in the 5 ring in a match. It will earn a last place finish. On the bright side, that score will place you in the "Marksman" class for the match. That in no way means the AK is a bum rifle. It is perfect for its' intended purpose but can't compete in a match.

The AK-47 front sight is adjustable for windage and elevation. I set the rear sight elevation on a standard mark....like 200 yards/meters then tweek the front sight up/down until the POI agrees with the rear sight. I use the same technique on SKS rifles and it has worked pretty well.

Another helpful modification is to get an RPK rear sight. I have one with an adjustable groove and one with an adjustable peep sight. They fit on the AK without modification. These are not cheap (about $30) but give a real advantage.

Incidentally, I sling these rifles for prone but use a sling mount that pulls straight down instead of to the side as the standard sling attachment would. It takes some improvising to rig it but it seems to help. On one rifle, I used a Velcro loop to attach the sling swivel to the rifle barrel and used an M1 Garand sling. Gotta watch where you put the Velcro loop. I set it on fire once when it covered the piston vent hole!

Flash

 

[M. Sage]

See, I don't sling my AK for shooting, because I can feel the stupid thing flexing too much. For prone shooting, I "monopod" it on the magazine. Works great!

I bought a Mojo rear sight for mine. Big improvement from the regular notch sight, but the aperture is a bit big... but at least I can adjust it without using a sight pusher and there are smaller apertures available.

I finished dead-last at a high power match using a match-grade .308 Garand. I actually think I can shoot my AK better than that Garand (which I sold).

In my experience, a good AK will keep pace with your average AR using average ammo. Not your match-barreled AR using match ammo.

BTW: That target was at 300, 100 yards farther than you were talking about. 1/3 more distance is a big difference.

ETA: Ok, I did some quick math. I'd estimate the width of that cabinet at 15" by 20" tall. Sure, pretty big, but at 300 yards you're talking 5 MOA wide. 5 MOA at 200 yards is 10". Considering I'm a mediocre shot, and was using positions that are intended more for combat than the ones used in high power matches (gotta admit - those positions made me LOL a touch, but they work... unless you can't sit indian style or if that goofy prone position feels like it's going to break ribs - how do you guys do that!?) and a few other things.... Then again, I was using my Comp M2, which is worlds better than AK iron sights - heck, it's better than pretty much any irons short of match-grade sights. I was even making consistent hits with the front lens cover on.

 

[ROGER4314]

That's pretty good shooting for an AK and perfectly in line with what the rifle is designed to do.

that goofy prone position feels like it's going to break ribs - how do you guys do that?

There is a trick to prone shooting and I'll be happy to share it. I'd rather shoot prone with a sling than any other way. The only problem is that as I get older, it's hard to get UP from prone! Our club calls older shooters like me the "grown (groan) platoon" for that reason!

OK....line up your body at a slight (about 20 degrees) from the target. The left leg should be in line with your body and the right leg bent. I have a prone picture in my forum profile. Pick on my name above and it will take you there.

Support the rifle on your left elbow. The right elbow is off at an angle to add stability but the left elbow is the main rifle support.

Close your eyes and breathe. As you inhale and exhale, the rifle muzzle with rise and fall pivoting on the left elbow. Now, open your eyes and see if the vertical rise and fall is left or right of the target. If it is one side or the other, shift your body to correct that windage fault, Don't try to "muscle" the rifle into the correct line. This is called the "Natural Point Of Aim".

When you get the windage correct, breathe in and out until the front post falls directly to your desired aiming point on the target (6 o'clock or dead center hold). When you're happy with the post position, squeeze the round off. I prefer to let the sight go above the target, breathe to lower it and fire when the front post is on target.

It sounds like a lot of time is required to fire a shot but it's done very quickly when you get used to it.

That's all there is to it!

Flash