Phoebe Is Narrowing It Down...

[Phoebe Ann]

You all have been with Phoebe Ann through her saga of finding the right handgun for personal protection. This evening I went to the range at ASC in George Bush Park in Houston and did a little shooting.

I warmed up with a .22 and then a S&W .40. I shot the .22 at a target at 21 feet (or is it yards, those little details escape me ). I had an instructor who focused on the outside elements of shooting, that being...most likely I would be protecting myself at night, with someone moving towards me (target gets bigger but also closer for assault and less time for "thinking"), knowing your gun in the dark (you call it muscle memory?), rush of adrenaline, etc. He also mentioned how cops are sometimes found to miss a target because they focus on the weapon of the perp and not the person. i.e. if someone comes at you with a gun or knife, it's more intuitive to look at the gun and knife and shoot at it instead of the area that should be focused on...the chest or head. I had never thought of that. He said that ~440 people were killed by police officers in 2008 (I hope I'm quoting him correctly). I'm curious how many were wounded and how many officers shot and never wounded or missed.

The .22 that I was using also had a few malfunctions. Not sure what you veterans would call it but I had shot and then shot again and it was blank. Had to quickly pull the thingy back (slide?) and re-engage the gun and trigger again. (Y'all don't diss me for my lack of wording...I did it and I shot and it fired at a 9 in the target...close to bull's eye.)

I also went from a body target to firing at a little tiny target. The psychology from going from a body target to a very small target totally threw me off. Amazing how the psychological aspect will change things.

From my experience today I believe for personal protection, I'm leaning towards a revolver. This is only due to the simplicty of the gun and less parts/procedures to deal with. If I'm range shooting or competing, that's another story altogether.

I'll keep y'all posted.

Phoebe Ann

 

[GM.Chief]

Just do yourself a favor and take your CHL with semi-auto. Otherwise you will be restricted to a revolver. Period. Take it with a semi-auto and you can carry whichever you choose. (I think it's stupid, but since when does that matter...lol) Rent or borrow the SA if you have to. Just my two cents.

 

[Phoebe Ann]

Just do yourself a favor and take your CHL with semi-auto. Otherwise you will be restricted to a revolver. Period. Take it with a semi-auto and you can carry whichever you choose. (I think it's stupid, but since when does that matter...lol) Rent or borrow the SA if you have to. Just my two cents.

Absolutely! I plan on taking the test with a semi-auto. Always good to post that reminder though. Thanks GM!

 

[SIG_Fiend]

The trade off with revolvers is you'd have to reload twice as much to equal the same or close to the same number of rounds as most semi autos. Not to mention reloading a revolver is a bit more involved and a bit slower. Don't quite give up the semi autos yet, there's trade offs with everything. I'm still looking for the "perfect" one.

 

[MuddyWaterMan]

The age old argument , auto vs revolver. I have it with myself every morning before I leave the house! Auto usually wins. At least till I get my LCR.

 

[Shorts]

Phoebe Ann, its a real eye opener to put shots on target for different scenarios. I thought so the first time I did it. I can't imagine shooting through a fight or flight response and the adrenalin rush. The adrenalin dump on the other side would be wicked I bet. But I wonder 'how would I shoot?'. You know? Would I shoot well enough to stop the threat?

Glad you got to the range. Sounds like your instructor is giving you a good mix Keep use posted.

 

[Texas42]

I've never gone from shooting silloettes to targest. . .sounds interesting.

I think the words you are looking for is failure to feed (FTF) and failure to Eject (FTE). I'll deferr to the more experienced persons when talking about the mechanics of a gun and the causes of said problems, but most of the problems of semi-autos has to do with feeding and ejecting the cartridge.

Was that 440 number in Texas, or nationally? I'm sure the number of people who were shot and lived is much higher. If I have my numbers right, something like 80% of people shot in the US survive.

Nobody is going to dis you for your language. (If they do, they are an idiot)

 

[TriggerTime]

My 2 cents is that you are doing everything right. Getting instruction, practicing, and finding out what works for you. A .22 revolver that works for you beats the hell out of a stick or nothing at all. And a high end .45 ACP isn't going to be anything more than a piece of steel to throw at someone if you don't know how to use it or if its too difficult for you to use. There's an old saying "I'd rather be missed by a .45 than hit by a .22" for real good reasons.

I love both autos and revolvers. But there is just not question that a loaded revolver only requires picking it up, aiming, and pulling the trigger.

 

[TxEMTP69]

I think most on here will applaud your eagerness and willingness to learn and improve as this is what we all strive for. Whatever you choose, learn it, shoot it, carry with confidence

 

[dee]

Kinda on subject here is why do they classify it diff. if you shot a revolver in your chl class? I mean if its double action and you shoot it that way its pretty much the same as shooting a double action semiauto besides it holds a few less rounds.

 

[baboon]

Having seen the miscellaneous debris that got inside my wife revolver while inside her purse, she know has a Glock.

 

[Stangfan93]

I applaud you for learning to shoot and researching weapons.

If you ever have a failure to fire (FTF) then tap the gun on hiney and pull the "thingy". Hit it in the bottom of the magazine to make sure the magazine is in completely and then pull the slide back to put a fresh round in the hole.

I know where you are when it comes to leaning. 5 yeas ago I bought my 1st gun and learned alot by reading and looking at different forums. My parents are not what you would call gun people. I had a lo to learn on my own. If you ever have questions do not be afraid to ask. There are no dumb questions.

 

[TxEMTP69]

I've heard revolvers almost never "jam" but when they do, you won't be clearing it in the field. Anyone have any experience with this or more knowledge of the subject?

 

[Stangfan93]

Clean it regularly

 

[M. Sage]

Some kind of "stress" training is a good idea once you get the basics down. Like you're wondering about, the adrenaline and stress of a life-or-death confrontation seems to be enough to make most people forget their training all together. There's an NYPD study floating around where they say that officers shooting at an opponent who is shooting back have a hit rate of around 18% (one shot in five!) and that when they shoot at someone who isn't shooting back, this goes up to 30%. The hit rate for 7 yards and under is only 34%! That's only 21 feet, which is pretty much the "gold standard" for defensive handgunning (21 yards is considered by most to be a bit of a long shot with a pistol - 63 feet).

The reason isn't (just) that their marksmanship training sucks, it's that they don't get any stressed-shooting training. You'll never know how you do under stress until you try it that way.

Once you feel confident, I'd suggest a competitive shoot like IDPA. You wouldn't believe it until you try it, but that buzzer goes off and you know that everybody there is watching you and it's enough to make you forget what you're doing.

Read Jeff Cooper's Principles of Self Defense, it's an excellent little manual on defensive mindset. In the book he points out that fear of failure is usually greater than fear of death. Look how much time and money the average competitive shooter puts into their training and gear so that they can hit that X time after time, and compare it with how much time and effort the average police officer puts forth on a skill that may someday save his/her life. Most cops I've known go to the range when they have to and that's it.

The biggest trick to being able to do something in adverse and stressful conditions seems to be knowing that you can do it.

The trade off with revolvers is you'd have to reload twice as much to equal the same or close to the same number of rounds as most semi autos. Not to mention reloading a revolver is a bit more involved and a bit slower. Don't quite give up the semi autos yet, there's trade offs with everything. I'm still looking for the "perfect" one.

True, you'll have less capacity. But can you really imagine a scenario where you'll be using more than five rounds rapidly? I can't imagine many, especially if I'm carrying something I know that I can shoot well. If my P220 only held three rounds, I'm so confident with that gun I wouldn't hesitate to carry it despite the lack of capacity, and would definitely carry it over something that isn't as natural for me to shoot or that I'm less experienced with like a Glock, even if it would give me five times the ammo capacity.

Train more, shoot less.

I've never gone from shooting silloettes to targest. . .sounds interesting.

I think the words you are looking for is failure to feed (FTF) and failure to Eject (FTE). I'll deferr to the more experienced persons when talking about the mechanics of a gun and the causes of said problems, but most of the problems of semi-autos has to do with feeding and ejecting the cartridge.

Was that 440 number in Texas, or nationally? I'm sure the number of people who were shot and lived is much higher. If I have my numbers right, something like 80% of people shot in the US survive.

Nobody is going to dis you for your language. (If they do, they are an idiot)

Yeah, IIRC it's around 60-75% of gunshot victims in the US survive. Most of the gunshot wounds are handguns, and handguns aren't really good for killing. If they were mostly rifle wounds, it'd be a different ballgame.

I've heard revolvers almost never "jam" but when they do, you won't be clearing it in the field. Anyone have any experience with this or more knowledge of the subject?

I've heard of revolvers jamming for a couple of reasons, mostly because the back of a cartridge gets jammed between the frame and the cylinder. It's a pretty rare to hear about a revolver that refuses to cycle and fire, though.

 

[Phoebe Ann]

Thanks for the encouragement y'all. I appreciate all the comments and advice. It's a bit intimidating to be on a board of "experts" with me not even knowing the correct lingo. But, I press on! I do take everything to heart that is said or recommended. I wouldn't have a problem buying a gun today if I were looking for a range gun or a gun for competition. But for a concealed gun for a novice, it's a different story due to scenario. Range shooting is controlled, precise and calculated (hopefully). Concealed weapon is available for me to use under different circumstances and I need to have 100% confidence. I'm more concerned about my weapon at that time than my skill, although I'm not trying to overstate my skill. My weapon is my life and it has to be 100%. I can improve my skill, I can't improve the weapon. You can be a world class marksman but if your gun fails, your marksmanship is nothing. Hopefully you get my gist.

Phoebe Ann

 

[Army 1911]

They reason that the semi auto is more complicated, some with grip safeties, thumb safeties, magaizes that must first be loaded, then inserted, then the slide either pulled back or released to charge the gun.

a revolver is one piece so to speak, load the cylinder close it and pull the trigger. Takes less words to explain so it must be easier and more reliable...yada yada.

There is nothing wrong with a revolver for SD or HD. Remember that you are carrying for protection, not for getting into a firefight with a platoon of crazed jihadists.

And remember, most armed assults are one on one.

As a 1911 guy, I always figured you double stack guys plan on missing half the time.

Besides, double stack is how you order pancakes!

 

[M. Sage]

I've seen the statistic bandied about that the average shooting involved a total of 3 rounds fired.

Hopefully if I'm ever involved in a shoot-out, I fire all three.

As a 1911 guy, I always figured you double stack guys plan on missing half the time.

Besides, double stack is how you order pancakes!

 

[SIG_Fiend]

True, you'll have less capacity. But can you really imagine a scenario where you'll be using more than five rounds rapidly?

I can think of plenty. Here's one from Miami.

YouTube - HOME INVASION SHOOT OUT !!! "HOME OWNER SHOOTS BACK" - PIMA COUNTY SHERRIFS DEPT. - MIAMI


Daylight attempted home invasion with 4 attackers, at least 3 of which were armed and one of those was armed with an AR15. Had those guys been a bit more fearless, imagine taking on 3 armed attackers, one of which having a semi auto rifle! There are countless other examples like that. No one ever died from having too much ammo in their gun or being too prepared. All it takes is that one in a million chance that you become the unlucky winner that has to deal with more than one deranged, possibly heavily armed attacker, or possibly a heavily armed active shooter out in public somewhere.

Semi autos are easy. Everyone has their personal preference of course, but with just a little bit of practice and repetition of some simple malfunction drills, you can easily keep any semi auto running and generally be able to shoot faster and put more rounds down range than with a revolver. Something to consider. In today's high speed world, with more and more attackers donning body armor, higher capacity guns, etc I honestly just see revolvers as being too "slow" for a few too many potential real life encounters for my tastes. Just my personal opinion.

You too could find yourself all alone in a 50 story building, barefoot and in a wife beater, with nothing but a Beretta 92f and copious amounts of profanity between you and 12-15 mostly European hostage takers. lol j/k

 

[Texas42]

Sig Fiend, I agree with you, but I did handle a Smith and Wesson yesterday that had a seven round cylinder. It felt really good. Maybe someday. . . . you know when I can afford to waste money on a gun that I don't need AND convince my better half.