Private Gun Sales

[ohhrico1969]

With all the identity theft that exists, how do you guys feel about giving someone your DL to record the number from? I mean a responsible seller wants to "protect" themselves and "do the right thing" of course but what about the buyer. How much of a risk do you place yourself in order to get a good deal?

 

[CanTex]

I will allow a seller to see my DL but not record it. There is no requirement for him to have it and no way I would expect him to keep it as safe as I.

If he needs to keep a record of it I want to know the security setup he has to protect the information and what steps he would do if it was ever compromised. Most don't even consider that aspect of being entrusted with the info. If they insist they need a copy I don't need the deal.

I have also had sellers provide a copy of the TGT form with their DL info on it. I ask them to either keep the form or cut out the DL info.

 

[Moss_Berg5150]

This is great point you bring up because generally, I use a bill of sale form that records my DL and CHL and that of the purchaser. In most cases I won't even sell to anyone without a CHL (**It's just a personal preference for me and I probably won't ever change my mind so please spare me the attacks). Although I dont go around selling guns like some sort of arms dealer, the couple of times I have sold, I nor the purchaser had any issue exchanging that information.

 

[txinvestigator]

As a seller or buyer you can ask for and be willing to submit any documentation you like. However, the law only makes it an offense to knowingly sell to an unauthorized person. If I sell a gun to you and you commit some crime with it, and I not in the least worried about the cops thinking I committed the crime. If they run a trace on the gun and I was the original buyer, if I can remember your name I will tell them, but I probably won't.

I see no reason to assist the government with additional defacto registration. I also do not want to run the risk of identity theft.

 

[Renegade]

With all the identity theft that exists, how do you guys feel about giving someone your DL to record the number from? I mean a responsible seller wants to "protect" themselves and "do the right thing" of course but what about the buyer. How much of a risk do you place yourself in order to get a good deal?

Never gonna happen.

Besides, what are they protecting themselves from?

 

[lazyeye]

Great topic.

My two cents would be this - If you are going to do something do it right, or don't do it at all.

Looking at your DL or CHL isn't going to allow me to know if you are prohibiited from owning that firearm, all I know is that you were able to get a non-expired DL or CHL (that may or may not be real), sometime in the past 4 years, so I won't show ID nor ask for ID. That means that I won't ever buy a firearm from some people on this board, which sucks, but that's their right (and mine) to insist on sometimes illogical rules.

 

[midnightrider]

I only sell to another CHL owner and must show it to me, beyond that it's all I need.

 

[MAJIK_BONE_77]

I always write up a bill of sale wether I'm selling or buying, and I always use DL #s, that way I'm covered. Its also almost impossible to get anything of value using someone's DL# without the actual License for validation, your DL has your picture, and signature on it, and can easily be disputed if someone only used the number without the card. Not to mention for any kind of financial benifits to stealing your identity the person would need your S.S. # not your DL.

Is it a risk? ....... Yes, but not a big one, and not one that would have much of a chance of being a long lasting, or financial risk.

Most people just want to make sure that they are covered (wether buying or selling) if something ever happens with the firearm that was sold, that way if a cop ever comes knocking at their door asking about the gun they can point the cops in the right direction.

 

[Wolfwood]

i require DL # , phone #, full name mothers maiden name your social security number and the numbers of your immediate family, your address your car's license plate and serial number your current and previous 3 employers information. and your previous three addresses, as well as no less than three places you like to hangout when not at work or at home.
also your favorite type of cheese.

 

[frequency]

quit being paranoid, theres not much they can do with a DL number

 

[Outbreak]

I require nothing. So far, I've only sold to guys behind tables at gun shows, and they're usually older guys so I'm not worried about age. I might ask for ID if the buyer looks young. Wouldn't record a thing.

For those of you who only sell to CHL holders, is that only TX CHL holders? I have a Florida CHL, that I got in college. Being Active Duty Military, I move a lot (last count was 5 addresses in the last 3 years) and simply haven't had time to get a TX CHL. Not a huge priority since Texas has reciprocity with Florida, so I can carry. I buy guns with a DL and a copy of my orders.

For that matter, would you accept a Military ID in lieu of a CHL?

 

[Texas Solo]

I always write a bill of sale, to include DL#, current addy and DOB. If you don't agree with this, I understand, we just won't do the deal.

 

[CanTex]

So with the information collected what is your responsibility if someone should steal the information from you, say during a home invasion. Couple weeks later guy you sold to gets pulled over because someone using a fake DL with your guys name/number on it which was used it to convince someone else to sell him a gun/car/whatever with a bad check. Possibly he is pulled from work by cops. When the dust settles he has suffered at a minimum discomfort and embarrassment, at worst lost his job as well as having the requirement to prove he was not the guy.

Are you going to cover his expenses? compensate for his losses?

Why bother collecting information that is not required and could potentially be a liability?

It is not just the social that can be used to establish an identity or be used to cause harm to someone's reputation.

Food for thought

 

[Adionik]

I've never had to show my drivers license for any of my gun purchases. I guess because I don't look suspicious.

 

[CanTex]

Watched Fox New tonight. Interesting bust a cop made on a traffic stop... Not sure how many DL the guy had but it was a bunch.... they called it identity theft. No Socials, no DOB just a pile of DL and checks that a couple were using to live on. Paying for everything from hotel rooms to food and gas. Now they did say he obtained them from breaking into cars. However, point remains, with someone's DL you can do a lot of damage.

Again, if I buy or sell a gun, I ask to see it. I have no need to record or keep it. I just do not care to have that responsibility nor is it required.

Again, my two cents worth... wonder how much more before I can afford a cup of joe?

 

[MAJIK_BONE_77]

A person can do damage with the actual card, but if all u give them is your DL # the most they can do is try to make a fake DL card which won't even really do them any good because everywhere (like a bank, if they tried to open an account under your name) will run the magnetic strip on your card like an officer will do if u get pulled over, and it either wouldn't work, or the information wouldn't match. And either way it's easily disputed, and corrected. Not to mention the fact if all they have is your DL# and name, they would still need your DOB, address as it appears on your card, and other personal info that would need to match to make a good fake. So unless your letting someone record all this info when u buy or sell a gun I wouldn't worry about it. Not to mention the fact that if your giving your DL# they had better be giving theirs as well, if I buy a gun, and someone wants to see my DL I want to see theirs too, and if they don't show, then I don't.

 

[Rum Runner]

So bear in mind I am currently a native of the People's Republik of Kalifornistan, and not being released to the Free State of Texas for a couple more months so the attitudes in this thread are alien to me, but...

If you are the last person of record on a gun used in a crime, without at least a bill of sale, aren't you more guilty until proven innocent?

 

[MAJIK_BONE_77]

So bear in mind I am currently a native of the People's Republik of Kalifornistan, and not being released to the Free State of Texas for a couple more months so the attitudes in this thread are alien to me, but...

If you are the last person of record on a gun used in a crime, without at least a bill of sale, aren't you more guilty until proven innocent?

That's really up to the police to determine, there is no law that says u have to have a bill of sale to sell a gun, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a police department that would harass u over it after u told them u sold it, unless they had reason to believe you knowingly sold to someone that was going to use it in a crime. But I think common sense tells u that u should go ahead and at least verify the persons DL so u will at least know the name the person gives u is correct, and to have something to give the police, in case that situation ever arises. I had this situation happen to me before, although it was in colorado, and because of that I now always get a DL# and name when I sell or even buy (in case it is stolen) a gun from an individual. Fortunately I knew the person I sold it to, and it turned out that he sold it to someone else a few months later so I was off the hook.

 

[Texas1911]

Let me let you guys in on a little story:

Back when the ATF was shutting down the Austin gun show they arrested a guy for "selling to a known illegal alien". This seller had asked the so-called "illegal alien" for identification and a Texas DL was produced. He then made the transaction, and was subsequently arrested and drug out of the Austin gun show, literally. It was a private gun sale from a private collection at a public gun show. He is now in the legal system trying to defend himself.

So a little cover your ass is in order from my perspective, especially knowing that story above. The degree of that depends on several factors, most of which is how well do I know this individual and is their any possibility that they might be excluded from the gun sale by any shape and form (prison tats, accents, etc.)

 

[Renegade]

Let me let you guys in on a little story:

Back when the ATF was shutting down the Austin gun show they arrested a guy for "selling to a known illegal alien". This seller had asked the so-called "illegal alien" for identification and a Texas DL was produced. He then made the transaction, and was subsequently arrested and drug out of the Austin gun show, literally. It was a private gun sale from a private collection at a public gun show. He is now in the legal system trying to defend himself.

So a little cover your ass is in order from my perspective, especially knowing that story above. The degree of that depends on several factors, most of which is how well do I know this individual and is their any possibility that they might be excluded from the gun sale by any shape and form (prison tats, accents, etc.)

What cover your ass is there for a guy who produces a Texas DL? Even an FFL would get burned by that.