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Red Light Camera - Wife got a ticket!

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    DoubleActionCHL

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    So, my wife gets a ticket from Humble "Redlight Camera Enforcement Department" for $75. Obviously, she ran a redlight. Now, I have some basic problems with this. Number one, it's just creepy and flies in the face of all that is American; we are NOT supposed to be watched 24/7.

    Secondly, it completely deprives the citizen of his constitutional right to confront his accuser.

    Third, there is usually NO possible way to prove who was driving the vehicle on that particular day, at that particular time.

    And fourth, the language is insane: If you do not pay them by the due day, they consider it an admission of guilt and acceptance of liability. If you pay the $75, the consider THAT an admission of guilt and acceptance of liability! HUH? Don't the rules that apply to other debt collection apply to cities? If Citibank arbitrarily sends me a bill and writes "failure to response constitutes acceptance of liability for the aforementioned debt," it holds no water! Courts have ruled on this dozens of times!

    As I understand it, this is a civil debt, rather than an actual fine. What are the ramifications of refusing to pay it? How do we get out of it? The thought of playing the game and participating in a 'hearing' for something so absurd really gets under my skin, but I'm willing to do what it takes to keep from paying this stupid ticket.

    Anyone have any REAL suggestions?
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    brainiac

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    kingofwylietx

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    I hate to tell you, but this has already been tested by the lawyers. It was ruled lawful and constitutional last year. They even changed the hearing process after a lawsuit that argued the civil fines conflicted with state law.

    Good luck!
     

    mac79912

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    My buddy Pete just got one.The photos showed that the stoplights were on but when he went to court they had video showing he did not make a complete stop.I think he learned his lesson because he now makes complete stops at every light.+1 on others using cell phones and driving.The phones are a distraction and I have almost been in serious accidents many times by people holding a cell phone and driving with one hand.Waaaaaah.
     

    DoubleActionCHL

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    Stop whining. Pay up. Stop running red lights, and endangering my life by running red lights and using a cell phone while you're driving.

    You call that a REAL suggestion? First off, it wasn't me, it was my WIFE! READ! Secondly, my issue is NOT whether or not she's guilty or even if she should pay a fine. It's HOW she was caught. I have an issue with redlight cameras. They infringe on our civil rights.

    I'll keep an eye out and next time you complain about our 2nd amendment rights being infringed, I'll just remind you to STOP WHINING!

    By the way, CONGRATULATIONS on your FIRST post! I can see having you around is going to be a hoot!
     

    DoubleActionCHL

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    My buddy Pete just got one.The photos showed that the stoplights were on but when he went to court they had video showing he did not make a complete stop.I think he learned his lesson because he now makes complete stops at every light.+1 on others using cell phones and driving.The phones are a distraction and I have almost been in serious accidents many times by people holding a cell phone and driving with one hand.Waaaaaah.

    My wife's shows her car nearly completely through the intersection, and yes, the light is clearly red. There's no way of knowing WHEN the light turned red.

    Anyway, I have no doubt that she ran the light. My problem is with the cameras. How do you argue with a machine? The process assumes you're guilty with no recourse.
     

    Enron Exec

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    I have one of these red light tickets from April and refuse to pay it as well. I was not on a cell phone, but i consciously decided to run a yellow light, thinking i would have enough time to safely make it across the intersection. The light turned red just as I entered the crosswalk, i think different intersections have different timings on the yellow lights, and i was caught on camera. The fine now has been raised to $100 and i understand they could maybe keep me from registering my car.

    I know for a fact nothing could have possible have come close to hitting me as i ran that red light. There is a pause between the time my light turned red and the other turned green. I am almost certain that my car was completely across the intersection when the other light turned green.
     

    Texian

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    You call that a REAL suggestion? First off, it wasn't me, it was my WIFE! READ! Secondly, my issue is NOT whether or not she's guilty or even if she should pay a fine. It's HOW she was caught. I have an issue with redlight cameras. They infringe on our civil rights.

    I'll keep an eye out and next time you complain about our 2nd amendment rights being infringed, I'll just remind you to STOP WHINING!

    By the way, CONGRATULATIONS on your FIRST post! I can see having you around is going to be a hoot!

    I just found out about this site yesterday on the 1911 Forum. I got here AS FAST as I could.

    I AM concerned about my 2nd Amendment rights. That's why I AGREE WITH YOU about the need to vote for John McCain.
     

    SIG_Fiend

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    There is the possibility of requesting to see a calibration chart, showing the camera is in perfect and accurate operational condition. I have known people before, and heard of people, that have challenged traffic tickets and asked to see calibration charts for officer's radar guns. If the officer can't provide it, then there is no proof it was functioning properly and I have heard some people get acquitted by this method.

    The worst part about all this is that things like red light cameras generally tend to turn the ticket process into something it should not be. What I'm saying is the purpose of giving someone a ticket is to give them a reminder/warning of when they are being unsafe. Giving tickets just for tickets sake is bullshit. If it's the middle of the day and I'm in the middle of nowhere at an intersection, and I can see clearly for miles that there isnt a single car around, running a red light for example is 100% MEANINGLESS at that point. No point in giving someone a ticket in that situation. Technically yes, the law was broken but that simply deserves a warning as far as I'm concerned as no one was endangered. We need to get away from this mentality of unrelenting traffic justice like the law and tickets are friggin robots that give tickets for every single offense regardless.
     

    JKTex

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    Big brother? No ones watching your wife, or you or me. A picture is snapped when a car runs a red light, whatever that trigger is. The intersection is being watched to enforce traffic laws....and generate revenue at the same time. :D

    If you run a red light and get a picture taken, you violated a serious traffic law and got caught. If you think you have a case for whatever reason, calibration etc., fight it. If not, pay it. :p

    I see way too many people intentionally run red lights in busy intersections and the only reason there aren't more wrecks is because other people are paying attention.
     

    Texas1911

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    It's only time before the speed cameras go up. Probably in the name of safety and the environment. They have been proven unsafe in the UK, having caused a number of serious accidents, and yet they persists because of the money they generate.
     

    JKTex

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    What I don't agree with isn't that it's the private sector providing the systems, support and operation, but them sharing the "revenue". The "revenue" from a ticket is supposed to be punishment for a violation and that punishment should go to the entity that is responsible.

    There were issues when they first started coming into the Dallas area a few years ago, whereby yellow light timing was set such to catch/trap people for the sole purpose of "revenue" generation.

    It should be a tool of enforcement, not private sector revenue sharing.
     

    kingofwylietx

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    I am torn about this one!

    I think that eveyone agrees that the red light cameras are installed to generate revenue.

    Most have read that they create more accidents at the intersections where they are installed, the type of accidents being rear-ends (the accidents tend to be much less severe, so fewer people are actually hurt).

    Since they have installed the lights, I have noticed a reduction in people running red lights.......even at intersections that don't have cameras.

    Not much ticks me off more than having to wait for 5 people to run their red light.....so I can go on my green. For THAT REASON ALONE, I am glad we have them.

    I am a little more aware of red lights and am less likely to scoot a yellow now.


    My other thought: It's like speeding. You know you are doing it. You know you did it. Pay up, you got caught.......and you probably got away with it 1000 other times. [this wasn't directed at OP, as he stated it was his wife].
     

    mac79912

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    My buddy learned the hard way.He should have just paid the $75 but it ended up costing him $400 trying to fight the ticket.Guilty until proven guilty.
     

    JKTex

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    I am torn about this one!

    I think that eveyone agrees that the red light cameras are installed to generate revenue.

    Most have read that they create more accidents at the intersections where they are installed, the type of accidents being rear-ends (the accidents tend to be much less severe, so fewer people are actually hurt).

    Since they have installed the lights, I have noticed a reduction in people running red lights.......even at intersections that don't have cameras.

    Not much ticks me off more than having to wait for 5 people to run their red light.....so I can go on my green. For THAT REASON ALONE, I am glad we have them.

    I am a little more aware of red lights and am less likely to scoot a yellow now.


    My other thought: It's like speeding. You know you are doing it. You know you did it. Pay up, you got caught.......and you probably got away with it 1000 other times. [this wasn't directed at OP, as he stated it was his wife].

    A lot of good points I agree with. We don't have camera nearby, but I find myself being more aware.

    However, the light turns green, I'm going but I'm watching the ass hole looking up seeing if he/she has beat the light that turned red on the car 3 ahead of them. I drive a big truck and it's one time I take advantage. Ya, it's freaking them out, but I'm not going to hit them, but I'm going to get their seat wet if I can. It's my free "Driving Responsibly" course. :D
     

    DoubleActionCHL

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    Big brother? No ones watching your wife, or you or me.

    You'd be surprised how many cctv cameras there are in Houston and the surrounding freeways and busy surface streets. We're not quite up the the UK, but we're getting there. Look around. You'll see poles with three or four video cameras atop.

    I'm not a big fan of "If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about."
     

    jdh

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    First: Tell your wife "Stop whining. Pay up. Stop running red lights, and endangering my life by running red lights and using a cell phone while you're driving."

    Second: Be happy she was caught by the camera and not a live police officer. With the camera it is civil violation. Pay the fine and your are done. If she was caught by the live officer it would be a moving traffic violation with resultant entries being made on the driving record (for your insurance company to find and jack up your rates) and the accumulation of points towards renewal surcharges.
     
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