Reloading for plinking / long range

[MrRobot]

I need some feedback because I'm losing my mind.. Here's the issue I love reloading creating something from scratch and making it work. When I first started reloading a year back I only did the .223.

Now that I have a better idea and the right equipment it's much easier to do thing. I have nice stuff that I been replacing the last couple of months. My issue is I only have one AR-15 that I'm reloading. I've been working on finding the correct load for it. I just bought a bullet comparator that will help me down the road for with my 308 and 6.5.

All of the video show the bullet comparator for long range only. I don't see anyone using it on a 223 load. Heres my two questions.

1. First AR should I just create a regular loads for plinking for this rifle?
2. Should I build a good AR for long range and focus on creating a good load using the bullet comparator.

I think what happen to me was listing to many different reloaders that I jump into a rabbit hole. I was thinking if keep simple for the plinking AR but spend more time on the new build.

hopefully I make sense.

 

[usmcpmi]

A couple of questions. What do you consider "long range"? What type of accuracy are you looking for?

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[usmcpmi]

Just saying, personally I would find one load that shoots acceptably in that rifle at "long range" and load only that. The cost difference between a load that works and just throwing together "plink ammo" is not worth the money, time or effort.
JMHO....

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[Lonesome Dove]

There is no need for a bullet comparator unless you're shooting for points, money or betting on competition. The more tools you use the more complicated you make it.
Basic loading and finding a good bullet, powder and weight are foremost important over gadgets.

 

[toddnjoyce]

…My issue is I only have one AR-15 that I'm reloading. I've been working on finding the correct load for it.

1. First AR should I just create a regular loads for plinking for this rifle?
2. Should I build a good AR for long range and focus on creating a good load using the bullet comparator.
…

If I understand correctly, this is what you are asking about. I’ll address the second question first.

The rifle is likely more accurate than you are until you get a few thousand rounds down the barrel. Optics will help more than another rifle.

Now, on to the first. Without knowing twist rate and barrel length, I’ll hit the wave tops on projectiles. Heavier projectiles will generally improve accuracy and repeatability, as will barrel length. Black Hills’ 77gr SMK blue box (Mk262) is the gold standard in a 1:8 twist 18” heavy barrel.

 

[benenglish]

listing to many different reloaders

A willingness to listen is never bad. Don't beat yourself up about that. However, do be choosy about who you listen to. Glen Zediker (look up the books he wrote if you're curious) is someone most people would consider authoritative; may he RIP. Here's an excerpt from his book Handloading for Competition, a book I highly recommend. His quick and dirty summary of .223 reloading was lengthy so this excerpt is highly edited by me.

.223 Remington
...I like H4895 for one (powder) that works with anything from 52gr to 80gr. It gets a little peaky with the heavier bullets, may not produce ultimate terminal numbers...but shoots ...well and exhibits few problems....RE-15, VARGET, and VV N140 have their proponents...but are relegated to best use with bullets that weight over 75 grains....to try a ball (powder)...try AA 2520. It's fairly flexible and accelerates an 80 to big numbers. ...
If all anyone wants to do is shoot bullets up to 70 grains, try some WW 748. ...I think that if your AR15 won't shoot tight ... off a Sierra 69 with 25.5 grains of that stuff then, son, you have a gun problem...

Plenty of new powders have come out since he died so don't consider this info to be any sort of holy grail. But it's a place to start.

Now something from me: I'm not a rifleman but I've always felt that with any firearm, the key to better results is to find any load that works reasonably well then shoot it for a long time, maybe until you wear out a barrel. When you've got that much trigger time then maybe, just maybe, you'll be skilled enough to actually gain some ground by spending hours of your life obsessing over fine-tuning and measuring your reloads. Until then, I'd put that comparator back in the box.

If I ever own an AR my first one will be something cheap and I'll simultaneously buy 10K rounds of the cheapest ammo I can find. When I've depleted that, I figure I might know enough to buy a really good AR and start loading good ammo. Until then, at least in my case, I know that the shooter is definitely the weak link in the chain of performance.

 

[usmcpmi]

In my experience, any "quality" AR platform rifle will perform at a higher level than the shooter holding it. Off the rack M16A2 rifles easily group in a 12" target at 500 yards with stock iron sights. All day long with standard issue ammo.
So unless you are shooting for money or personal goals, stock rifle and ammo should do fine.

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[toddnjoyce]

…Glen Zediker (look up the books he wrote if you're curious) is someone most people would consider authoritative; may he RIP...

One of his I keep as ready reference.

 

[benenglish]

One of his I keep as ready reference.

Ringbound? I'm so jealous. His handloading book was too thick to be square bound but it was. Every old copy of it I've seen that has had much use is falling apart. I know mine is.

 

[MrRobot]

Thank you everyone for the positive feedback. Learning by yourself is sometime hard but with the pandemic I had to. Reading and watching videos helped me along the way and getting advice from different loaders.

Now to answer some questions:

A couple of questions. What do you consider "long range"? What type of accuracy are you looking for?

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@usmcpmi long range good question. To me anything 100yrs or more. The shooting ranges I have gone too never really had anything more then 100yrs. My idea goal is 1000 yard or more. That would be amazing to do.

The rifle is likely more accurate than you are until you get a few thousand rounds down the barrel. Optics will help more than another rifle

@toddnjoyce to tell you the truth I don't think my AR has 100 rounds. When I purchased my AR my co-worker found me a good deal on a DMPS .. A lot of people told me that a lower end AR .. I just starting plus I was on a budget at that time.

@benenglish I think I will look into the book and see what I learn.


For now I think I will put away the bullet comparator and just focus on creating a good load for my AR. I found a private range that had 100yrs so I'm excited about that.

Down the road I would like to get into beginners long range competition if possible.

Thank you guys once again, and enjoy the warm weather before we see the cold.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Thank you everyone for the positive feedback. Learning by yourself is sometime hard.…

For reference, the AR platform’s effective range is 500m/550 yards. That translates to being able to hit a man-sized target (12” circle) with iron sights. Long range would be beyond those distances.

62gr soft point is an economical choice and close enough to M855 for your current spot in the journey.

Philosophically, shooting/precision shooting is a hobby stream and reloading is a hobby stream. They parallel each other, but simply following a recipe to replicate a Mk262 round is not going to result in you being able to max perform the rifle/ammo combination, and vice versa.

A few years ago, I decided I wanted try the ELR side of the sport. I shot about 2500 rounds of .22LR at really small targets at 100 yds over the course of a year. Indoor, so wind wasn’t even a factor. Then I went outdoor and did the same thing in all sorts of light and wind conditions. I learned so much from shooting 500 or so rounds of different factory ammo filled a small notebook that let me know what ammo my little CZ455 liked best. So I bought a case of 5,000 of that particular ammo and shot it all. Got another case and realized inconsistencies in lots introduced variation in performance.

That amount of consistent ammunition performance allowed me to focus on improving/correcting one thing at time until I could reliably shoot one-half MOA or better in most conditions. I’d be satisfied if I could shoot one MOA in any given situation today because I’m not shooting a couple hundred rounds a week with that platform any longer. And I’m okay with it, because I know that repeatedly hitting a one inch target at 100 yards with a dinky little .22LR puts me in the top 5% of shooting proficiency.

I learned so much about my body position and interaction with the rifle that it filled another small notebook. I went through three different optics packages. I have journals full of environmental conditions and which settings produced what results. That is reference data anytime I pull that rifle out now. I know after X many rounds fired that barrel fouling begins to impact performance and what impacts cleaning the barrel with which products has.

I know what to expect from cold barrel performance and what to expect from a hot barrel, and what waiting one minute rounds being fired results in.

I loved every minute of it and hope you enjoy every minute of your journey. It can be frustrating when you just get started because of expectation bias and learning curves and associated costs for each stream of the hobby.

 

[usmcpmi]

@usmcpmi long range good question. To me anything 100yrs or more. The shooting ranges I have gone too never really had anything more then 100yrs. My idea goal is 1000 yard or more. That would be amazing to do.

Then concentrate on making all shots touch at 100 yards. And while it has probably happened, 5.56 at 1000 yards is more unlikely than not...there are other rifles that are better suited, and can perform consistently at that distance.

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[toddnjoyce]

@usmcpmi long range good question. To me anything 100yrs or more. The shooting ranges I have gone too never really had anything more then 100yrs. My idea goal is 1000 yard or more. That would be amazing to do.

Then concentrate on making all shots touch at 100 yards. And while it has probably happened, 5.56 at 1000 yards is more unlikely than not...there are other rifles that are better suited, and can perform consistently at that distance.

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Realize at 1K yards, 1 minute of angle is just shy of a foot.

I had a JTAC that dropped a dude with one shot at 470 yards in Afghanistan. A Marine smoked a dude in Irag at 700yds. At 1000, a 77gr SMK is still pushing 1000fps or so. Enough to do damage. The challenge is drop; you’ll likely run out of turret and need to put your optic on a 20MOA or better riser to make it happen.

 

[usmcpmi]

Realize at 1K yards, 1 minute of angle is just shy of a foot.

I had a JTAC that dropped a dude with one shot at 470 yards in Afghanistan. A Marine smoked a dude in Irag at 700yds. At 1000, a 77gr SMK is still pushing 1000fps or so. Enough to do damage. The challenge is drop; you’ll likely run out of turret and need to put your optic on a 20MOA or better riser to make it happen.

Yes, drop is important...as is wind, angle of the sun, cloud cover, heat rise, and others....

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[Havok1]

The reason people don’t use a bullet comparator with .223 is because when you’re shooting from an AR you’re generally just loading to mag length.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Yes, drop is important...as is wind, …

And that’s about it; the rest of the stuff doesn’t have a significant ballistic impact, but it does have an optical impact.

Coriolis effect also can become a factor around those ranges, too.

But I think all those concepts are likely beyond the scope of the OPs experience level and proficiency.

 

[usmcpmi]

I think one of the biggest things I can suggest to someone who wants to venture into "long range" shooting...learn to read wind, and distance. In a live fire situation, your target will not have a yard line marker next to him so you can set your scope. The best way to read wind, is shoot in the wind...keep a shot log book. Call your shots and study it when you get home.

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[Nicholst55]

The reason people don’t use a bullet comparator with .223 is because when you’re shooting from an AR you’re generally just loading to mag length.

Exactly. When you're dealing with a detachable magazine rifle, you are limited by what will fit and function in said magazine. If Eugene Stoner had made that magazine and magazine well 1/4" longer, life would be so much simpler! So unless you want to single load your AR-15 (which becomes tedious very quickly), you are limited to magazine-length cartridges. A fair number of people used to chase the lands with L-O-N-G ammo and 80 grain bullets at the 600-yard line in High Power competition, but those days are pretty much over. You're required to single load your rifle at the 600-yard line, so it made perfect sense at the time.

 

[MrRobot]

After reading some some of the post. I think I will stick to 500 or less on the AR.. Even getting on paper at 200yrs I would be happy with the AR.

@usmcp you are right and will practice. Knowing the distance without markers help, and wind. Specially here in TX how windy it gets.

This week I'm going to clean my AR and head out to the range over the weekend. Use some of reloading ammo I purchase a while back and see how things go.

Thank you once again, and keep you guys posted.