Shipping from NC to TX?

[wgsigs]

the problem with the law that allows you to legally ship to yourself vie "common carrier" is you can't find a common carrier to do it. UPS and FedEx have their own rules which bascially states either the shipper of the receiver need to hold and FFL and you MUST ship via premium air service.

If the gun is yours, take it on the plane. No big deal.

But that's the problem. The gun is not his and there is no legal way that I am aware of to transfer it to him in NC since he is an out of state resident.

Also, I do not believe UPS or FedEx requires FFL involvement if you are shipping to yourself. Their policy does require premium overnight service to reduce the risk of the gun being stolen. We looked into doing just that with the guns we didn't check on the airline. We opted instead to "move" the rest of the guns with the furniture my wife received from her mom's estate.

 

[nalioth]

You guys and your "IF" statements.

The law says that transfers between residents of the same state do not require an FFL to broker them. The law doesn't say one blessed thing about where those state residents happen to be when a transfer occurs. Two Texans in North Carolina? Trade away! Just make very sure that residency requirements are fulfilled.

P.S. You can have multiple state residencies.

the problem with the law that allows you to legally ship to yourself vie "common carrier" is you can't find a common carrier to do it. UPS and FedEx have their own rules which bascially states either the shipper of the receiver need to hold and FFL and you MUST ship via premium air service.

. . have you actually read the shipper's policies?

UPS allows for any legal shipment, which means if you own a gun, you can ship it intrastate directly to any legal recipient (which, here in Texas, is anyone legally able to own a gun) and interstate to any legal recipient. http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/...-shipping-firearm-who-where-how-when-why.html


It is FedEx that requires a licensee be involved as one party (at best) and a licensee be involved at both ends of the shipment (at worst).

 

[jocat54]

I would pack it really good in a box and take it to UPS and send it to my address.

John

 

[wgsigs]

You guys and your "IF" statements.

The law says that transfers between residents of the same state do not require an FFL to broker them. The law doesn't say one blessed thing about where those state residents happen to be when a transfer occurs. Two Texans in North Carolina? Trade away! Just make very sure that residency requirements are fulfilled.

P.S. You can have multiple state residencies.

. . have you actually read the shipper's policies?

UPS allows for any legal shipment, which means if you own a gun, you can ship it intrastate directly to any legal recipient (which, here in Texas, is anyone legally able to own a gun) and interstate to any legal recipient. http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/...-shipping-firearm-who-where-how-when-why.html

I'm no lawyer, but I believe it really does matter what state you are in. The OP is an out-of-state resident when he is in NC and their is no way he can buy or be given a gun except by bequeathal (is that a word?) . The OP's father-in-law may have residency in both states, but while he is in NC he better be a NC resident or he shouldn't be doing gun transaction. EDIT: I guess he could be a Texas resident retrieving his gun in NC and bring it back to Texas, but not giving it to you until you get back to Texas.

Federal Laws require a non-license holder to send handguns by common carrier to an FFL if it is interstate, but can be non-licensed if intrastate. I don't believe that UPS policy trumps that Federal Law.

I apologize for sidetracking this thread, and I don't want to appear to be argumentative. I just wanted state what I believe are the correct rules/laws that apply.

 

[wgsigs]

I would pack it really good in a box and take it to UPS and send it to my address.

John

You would be breaking all sorts of Federal laws (hyperbole), but the odds of getting caught are probably pretty slim. I personally wouldn't do it.

 

[jocat54]

Maybe maybe not, I think it would be WHO interperted the law. Sounds to me like they are both Texas residents--The OP, a Texas resident, is still a Texas resident if he is visiting NC, visiting NC doen't make him a resident of NC and the FIL is a Texas resident.
I do understand that not notifying UPS is illegal.

JMHO

John

 

[wgsigs]

You're right. Visiting NC does not make the OP a resident of NC, it makes him a non-resident of NC and still a resident of Texas but unable by Federal law to purchase or be given a gun in NC. Just because two people are residents of the same state I don't believe the law allows them to perform gun transactions in another state as if they were still in Texas. Think nalioth's interpretation would fly in California?

I think we have beaten this to death so I think I will stop now because none of us are lawyers AFAIK and it has come down to how we laymen have interpreted the law differently. We can agree to disagree about residency, but I think we all agree that the OP can do what he originally proposed if he legally owns the gun.

 

[navyguy]

But that's the problem. The gun is not his and there is no legal way that I am aware of to transfer it to him in NC since he is an out of state resident.

Also, I do not believe UPS or FedEx requires FFL involvement if you are shipping to yourself. Their policy does require premium overnight service to reduce the risk of the gun being stolen. We looked into doing just that with the guns we didn't check on the airline. We opted instead to "move" the rest of the guns with the furniture my wife received from her mom's estate.

I wasn't addressing if it was his gun or not, simply voicing frustration with the way UPS and FedEx handle gun shipments. Although Federal law allows one to
1)ship a gun to someone in their own state, and
2) ship a gun to themselves across state lines
UPS and FedEx still require either the shipper or receiver hold and FFL and shipment must go by premium service. Further further Federal law states very specifically that you MUST inform the carrier that you are shipping a gun, at which time UPS and FedEx enforces these rules about requiring and FFL receive or ship the gun.

I went through the same thing when I brought home guns that my Dad left to me when he passed away a few years ago. As we were traveling via air and already had a lot of luggage and other things we where bringing back I really wanted to ship them, but came up against these silly UPS and FedEx rules. I ended up taking two rifles on the plane (checked through properly) and had a local FFL ship the other for me.

 

[wgsigs]

navyguy, sorry if I was confusing. My comment about gun ownership was in reference to your last comment about checking the gun with the airline.

As for UPS, it is my understanding, and it appears nalioth's in post #22, that you do NOT need an FFL to ship guns you own to yourself interstate. Maybe whoever you talked to was misinformed, as I have heard stories of different policies from different employees at different UPS locations. Or maybe we're the ones who are wrong.

I guess I broke my word about being done with commenting in this thread.

 

[Texan2]

wow....talk about a thread growing tenticles and going several directions at once!

 

[nalioth]

You're right. Visiting NC does not make the OP a resident of NC, it makes him a non-resident of NC and still a resident of Texas but unable by Federal law to purchase or be given a gun in NC.

A Texan visiting NC could purchase any long gun from an FFL, provided all the laws of Texas and NC were observed. Since Texas only requires a NICS check (or an issued CHL), and I don't believe NC has purchase permits for long arms, a sale of this kind would be doable. O'course, the gun dealer may not want to do it (even though it's legal under federal law).

Just because two people are residents of the same state I don't believe the law allows them to perform gun transactions in another state as if they were still in Texas. Think nalioth's interpretation would fly in California?

Why wouldn't it? Two Texans from the same skeet team go to California for a competition. One guy's shotgun breaks and he buys one from another member of the team to compete with. Just because they're in California for the weekend doesn't make them residents of California, and no Californians would be affected by the transaction. California's law only affects transfers to Californians.

UPS and FedEx still require either the shipper or receiver hold and FFL and shipment must go by premium service. Further further Federal law states very specifically that you MUST inform the carrier that you are shipping a gun, at which time UPS and FedEx enforces these rules about requiring and FFL receive or ship the gun.

navyguy, sorry if I was confusing. My comment about gun ownership was in reference to your last comment about checking the gun with the airline.

As for UPS, it is my understanding, and it appears nalioth's in post #22, that you do NOT need an FFL to ship guns you own to yourself interstate. Maybe whoever you talked to was misinformed, as I have heard stories of different policies from different employees at different UPS locations. Or maybe we're the ones who are wrong.

Yes indeed. If you guys are having trouble with UPS, please print out a copy of their tariffs and take it with you. Some UPS counterpeople are very ignorant of their own policies on shipping guns and/or antigunners. If you have the printout of their policies, you can talk with a manager and get your stuff shipped.

And under federal law, you must declare you're shipping a gun to a common carrier ONLY WHEN SHIPPING TO AN UNLICENSED PERSON (no law requires declaration of any package contents at the post office).

Here are the laws on that:

MUST DECLARE:

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? [Back]

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

DO NOT HAVE TO DECLARE:

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped. - The law

These laws are all out there, and kept up to date here.