Sniper Solutions on a budget

[John Chambers]

While attending CQB instructor training in Prescott I received a request to make some specific recommendations regarding rifles, optics, etc., especially in regards to setting up a proper rifle when you have to work with a budget that does not allow for a $3000 rifle, $1500 optics, and $400 rings. These solutions are wonderful, if you can afford one, but if we are working with the Guerrilla Sniper guidelines of 200 meter headshots and 600 meter torso shots, there are more economical solutions that a well trained shooter can use to great effect...

http://www.warriortalknews.com/2010/12/guerrilla-sniper-solutions-on-a-budget.html

 

[chubbyzook]

there is cheaper than those as well
600 yard shots have been made with almost all world war 2 sniper rifles aswell ie. springfield 1903, mosin nagant, mauser 98

 

[John Chambers]

Very true, but you lose a LOT of capability if you limit yourself to "classic" optics. One of the best bolt guns I have seen was a particularly accurate M96 Swede that had a nice Leupold mounted on it, and the bolt handle turned down. It would hold 1 MOA with suplus Swedish ammo all day long!

 

[chubbyzook]

you're not limited to classic optics anymore a few years ago maybe but definately not anymore

 

[Texas1911]

Howa builds a hell of a bolt gun for the price. I've never had issues with 1500s. +1 on that choice!

 

[AusTex]

Yeah look up the history of the 6.5 swede. I agree with other posters there are a ton of options and you can find the 10x fixed power bushnell scopes on sale for $150 now.. Tac turrets, mil dots, focus.. just like the original super sniper.

 

[Mikewood]

You didn't say what your budget was or who it was for.
Just about any $600 Remington 700 synthetic stock deer rifle will do.
Picatinney base and rings. $100-200
Lupy scope $600-1000.

You could go cheaper but I think the liability might be to high.

 

[M. Sage]

I had a Burris Fullfield II for a while. It was a pretty good scope for the $200 I spent on it. That plus a St. Marie no-drill mount on a K31 was a very accurate set up. Shooting off a bench with Swiss surplus ammo, I'd use round orange price tags as targets at 100 yards.

there is cheaper than those as well
600 yard shots have been made with almost all world war 2 sniper rifles aswell ie. springfield 1903, mosin nagant, mauser 98

Simo Haya reportedly killed Soviets out to 600 yards with his Mosin M28 with iron sights. Something tells me it's less the rifle (the M28 is still a hell of a rifle) than it is the shooter.

 

[ROGER4314]

We shot 600 yard matches for years in Beaumont. I preferred the "service rifle" class (iron sights and basically as issued configuration) and used my Bushmaster Ar-15 for that competition. Unless a cross wind is howling, a Human sized target at 600 yards has a zero survival chance against an experienced marksman with a good rifle and iron sights. Sorry.........that's not even a challenge.

Head shots at 200 yards? That would put you out to about the 7 or 6 ring on a 200 yard target. The experienced marksman I've competed with could do that with iron sights on a decent rifle at 200 from prone. Most of the guys could put one between the eyes at 200. Again.....not a challenge.

Flash

 

[John Chambers]

I'm going to use a line I use quite a bit: Once you get over the romance of aligning iron sights, it is a lot easier to kill bad guys with optics.

Can very effective precision shooting be done with iron sights? Heck, yeah! I have done it myself on many occasions. But optics are cheating, and if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying hard enough!

 

[Chickenwing]

But optics are cheating, and if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying hard enough!

+1000

Rule 11. Always cheat, always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

 

[ROGER4314]

Once you get over the romance of aligning iron sights, it is a lot easier to kill bad guys with optics.

I agree and as I get older, shoot more scoped rifles. What bothered me about the OP was it inferred that a head shot at 200 and a torso shot at 600 were limited to scoped rifles. That just isn't so. A good marksman with a decent rifle can easily make those shots.

Some friends and I have a favorite game......We take clay pigeons, place them on the 200 yard berm and pick them off with 10-22's! We can make those 200 yard head shots with .22's.

Flash

 

[chubbyzook]

the bad part is that gun looks prettier than most the 3000 dollar guns ive seen
its beautiful man good job!

 

[Poink88]

Howa builds a hell of a bolt gun for the price. I've never had issues with 1500s. +1 on that choice!

+1 too. I have a .308 Weatherby Vanguard and it is really nice...nice enough that when my in-laws were looking for a hunting rifle, we bought 2 more.

 

[John Chambers]

Really? Not sure how you got that from what I wrote, since I did not even bring up the subject of iron sights vs. optics. Excellent shooting can be done with irons but, in the field, with partially concealed targets, under questionable lighting conditions, and under stress optics are a superior choice for a fighting rifle.

Doesn't mean you should not learn to use them, but there are many reasons why irons are backup sights on rifles from the M24, SDM-R, M110, etc. If someone wants to just run iron sights on their rifle, cool. The rifle will be lighter, but it will NOT be as versatile.

Once you get over the romance of aligning iron sights, it is a lot easier to kill bad guys with optics.

I agree and as I get older, shoot more scoped rifles. What bothered me about the OP was it inferred that a head shot at 200 and a torso shot at 600 were limited to scoped rifles. That just isn't so. A good marksman with a decent rifle can easily make those shots.

Some friends and I have a favorite game......We take clay pigeons, place them on the 200 yard berm and pick them off with 10-22's! We can make those 200 yard head shots with .22's.

Flash

 

[M. Sage]

Once you get over the romance of aligning iron sights, it is a lot easier to kill bad guys with optics.

I agree and as I get older, shoot more scoped rifles. What bothered me about the OP was it inferred that a head shot at 200 and a torso shot at 600 were limited to scoped rifles. That just isn't so. A good marksman with a decent rifle can easily make those shots.

Some friends and I have a favorite game......We take clay pigeons, place them on the 200 yard berm and pick them off with 10-22's! We can make those 200 yard head shots with .22's.

Flash

The question is speed. How quickly can you get that 200 yard head shot with your iron sights. For that matter, how quickly can you make a 300 yard body hit that way? I've practiced it with a red dot (magnification might make it faster) and doubt that even a high power shooter could match the speed a decent shooter with optics can get it done.

My result might not be as pretty or quite as precise, but it's going to be just as deadly and (probably) much faster.

 

[texasislandboy]

i have about 900$ in this rem. model 700 .308 it drives tacks at 200 shot a deer at 400 this year with it with no prob i put a hawk 4-10x55 on it great scope for the money

 

[Chickenwing]

I have a cheapo Savage Edge in .308 that I have really been wanting to stretch out. It has an awful trigger, but I can still squeeze some nice groups out of it. They released the Axis about a month after I got the "Edge" which doesn't exist anymore (something tells me it won't become a collectors item) and the Axis has a MUCH better trigger. According to the Savage Rep they should take it back and redo it for me. But we'll see.

 

[ROGER4314]

These solutions are wonderful, if you can afford one, but if we are working with the Guerrilla Sniper guidelines of 200 meter headshots and 600 meter torso shots, there are more economical solutions that a well trained shooter can use to great effect...

And that's why I brought up the subject of iron sights. Speed was never mentioned but cost, target size and distance guidelines were. Diminished light and stress were not mentioned, either. There's nothing to get wound up over here. The shots as defined in the OP can be made reliably with iron sights. No more....no less.

Flash

 

[tweek]

Hate to point this out but any Marine recruit coming out of 2nd phase (ie he just qualified) can do this with an $800 AR all day long. Why are we wasting all this money on crap hunting rifles that have no where near the versatility of an AR?

I agree optics make things easier buy why spend 700 on a Loophold when a $150 optic will do?

Frankly if you really are on a budget an AK might even be able to get the job done in these parameters and leave some money left over for the other gear you'll need.

hitting a torso at 600 yards means you can basically shoot inside 4MOA. Appleseed will teach you to do that.

What about all the other stuff? Evasion? Forensic clean up? What are you going to do with your $1500+ sniper rifle after you've committed your act of civil disobedience? What about the setup before hand? Target selection? Insertion to your shooting position? Who is going to spot for you?

The rifle is only a tiny fraction of your guerilla sniper. Luckily we're just a bunch of dumbass airsoft commandos talking about this stuff and not actually having to deal with it on a daily basis in Kandahar or any of the other lovely vacation destinations our servicemen and women get sent to by their travel agent.