Sniper Solutions on a budget

[tweek]

And speaking of target selection....I was made to read the thread about Righthaven the law firm that has been filing law suits against web-sites for copyright infrengrement.........Had me thinking thoughts. Sneaky little lawyerses. Wicked, tricksy, false!

 

[ROGER4314]

RE: Military Marksmanship

Our club in Beaumont let Army personnel shoot our 200 yard matches for free. Participation started out slowly but really grew. They would bring their M-16's and shoot against the civilians who used A2 Ar-15's (with iron sights).

Their average scores were 250-300 out of 500 possible points which isn't terrible but it's what a first or second year competitor can do. The civilians beat the heck out of those scores! My average AR-15 scores were 450 (Expert) to 475 (Master) from standing, rapid fire sitting, rapid fire prone and slow fire prone at 200 yards. Most of our civilian shooters did that or a bit better and we had some High Master shooters, too (about 480 and up out of 500).

The soldiers knew that they needed some work and came back regularly until they rotated back to combat deployment. What always bothered me was that these men and women depended on their M-16's and their shooting skills were not sufficient. In fact, soldiers who came out to shoot had to supply their own ammo! They had to stop at a gunshop to buy their own ammo before the match and had little marksmanship support from the Army......except for being allowed to participate on their own time! WTF!

As to the type of firearms used:
"Why are we wasting all this money on crap hunting rifles that have no where near the versatility of an AR?"

I love the bolt action and classic semi auto military rifles and frankly, always hated the black rifles. I put the Garands, 1903A3's and M1A's away and started using the black rifles because I wanted to WIN, not because they are my first choice. Yes..... they are accurate and it's hard to be competitive with other rifles against a properly tuned AR. But why trash someone's choice of rifles if it doesn't suit you? If they are out there practicing, improving and putting rounds down the tube, I say "ATTA BOY!"

The Appleseed organization that you recommend is filled with attitudes like that and a review of Fred's old columns would suggest that anything but an M1A/M14 is crap. Fred has mellowed a bit over the years but the truth is.......Gun snobs are still just snobs.

Flash

 

[tweek]

Didnt mean to imply that bolt rifles don't have the benefits. I have a 243 and 30-06. All rifles have their place.

However the application in this case favors the EBRs. For instance: I can breakdown my M4 so it will fit in my backpack. This would allow me to walk through a mall without attracting any attention. Just another shopper. Then when it comes time to go hollywood I have 30 rounds rounds ready to go.

Further based on what I'm reading most of the shots taken by Urban snipers aren't really extreme. 200 yards is about the max, well inside the M4s effective range. Smack a person with a 223 round and you'll ruin their day. You might not blow them apart but you definately won't be getting Christmas cards from them.

So yeah my 100 year old 243 can knock people down at 600 yards, but see what happens if you walk in to Starbucks with it.

Staying on the topic of Guerilla snipers and focusing in on the budget thing: how much is your bolt action rifle? Remember: you're going to destory it after it is used. Also, considering that you aren't shooting 1000 yards you don't need that much of a rifle. But the kicker: gotta be able to walk through a mall without attacking attention. Can you put it together for under $1000?

 

[tweek]

And yeah, in case you are wondering I'm reading: "Fry the Brain". Scary ass book. So that is the mindset I have here.

 

[chubbyzook]

he said his gun has cost 750 bucks so far
i have a mosin carbine with 2 screws out would be as short as a 16in m4 upper
i have closer to 200 dollars into and wouldnt mind trashing it after wards if i had to, but since it was purchased in a private sale with almost no way to track it to me i wouldnt have to trash it.

 

[tweek]

The point of trashing the rifle is that if investigators showed up at your house the rifle that was used wouldnt be there. If they did find the rifle (say at the bottom of a lake) it would have been wiped clean and the barrel reamed so that it couldnt be tied back to the event or you. Which is why your $200 rifle isn't bad in this completely made up fictional game of what-if.

 

[chubbyzook]

The point of trashing the rifle is that if investigators showed up at your house the rifle that was used wouldnt be there. If they did find the rifle (say at the bottom of a lake) it would have been wiped clean and the barrel reamed so that it couldnt be tied back to the event or you. Which is why your $200 rifle isn't bad in this completely made up fictional game of what-if.

a real sniper hides so no one knows who he is or what he looks like and at 600 yards it would be the biggest crap shoot in history as where i was shooting from. snipers are good at hiding, guerrilla snipers are even better at it. its not something they are taught in a year or 2 of training it is something they are taught through out their entire life. and with how dumb people are these days you could probably walk their any urban mall with the gun sticking a foot out the back-pack and noone would know anything.

 

[tweek]

Even 300 yards would leave people with little idea where the shooter is. With a proper setup the sound would be minimal making it that much more difficult to backtrack the shot. A mobile platform, say inside a uhual would make it even more difficult.

As for legalities, I think in this game we can assume that the sniiper is already breaking the big law, so breaking a minor law like chopping a barrel down doesnt even enter consideration.

As for remaining undetected though I don't think the sniper could get away with having a barrel exposed from his backpack. Sure, John & Jane sixpack are too busy wondering about the next episode of Housewives of Beverly hills to notice the scruffy hippy walking through the shopping center but the Airsoft Commando the mall just hired for security might notice. Part of the point of being a guerilla sniper is to blend in to society. Being a dirty hobo in Northpark Mall might attract a little attention. But a clean scruffy looking hipster with pointy shoes carrying a fashionable manpurpse wouldnt even raise an eyebrow.

What is particularly scary about this stuff is how little attention most people pay. In this scanario the sniper is not too worried about people, in fact he wants lots of people around while he is on the move so he can blend in. A sniper would also want people around when the shot is taken so they can create confusion to hide the escape. And finally he wants people around as he makes his escape. As long as he blend in and act properly the entire time the mission can be excuted right under the noses of the authorities and the target with tons of witnesses, but in the end the witnesses will not have actually seen anything.

 

[IXLR8]

The bullet drop on a .308 is 48" at 500 yards (depending on initial sighting at 200 yards). I don't know what it is for a "swede" but make sure your scope will allow for at least 60" when you think you are going to be shooting 500+ yards

Remington Ballistic Calculator

A .223 drops 50" between 300yards and 500 yards.

A 6.5x55 Cartridge Type Bullet
Remington® Express® 140 gr
yards inches
100 2.4
150 2.1
200 zero
250 -3.9
300 -9.8
400 -27.0
500 -57.8



You are a better shot than I am...

Just my 2 cents.

 

[chubbyzook]

or just use the hunter mentality and just aim high. i never adjust my scope for shots i just aim differently.

 

[tweek]

It's what mildots are for. On my M4 & SCAR the rear sight has an adjustment for the range. Zero for 200 and then dial it up as you go out. Only 'trouble' is if the target is inside 200 yards. In either case, 308 or 223, we're only talking about a inch or so.