Springfield M1A slam fire

[OLDVET]

I recently purchased a Springfield M1A rifle. The enclosed literature had a full page on ammo to use in this rifle. They claim a person should only use military 7.62 Nato ammo. They claim that civilian .308 ammo might cause the rifle to slam fire. Most ranges in my area prohibit FMJ ammo. Has anyone experienced this slam fire using quality civilian ammo? I think Springfield is just covering their fanny, but I have seen photos on the internet where M1A rifles have exploded.

 

[TimberWolf7.62]

I have owned an M1A and now own a SOCOM II and fired both military 7.62 and civvie .308, hundreds of rounds, no problem. Admittedly more 7.62 than .308, but still. . . .

 

[OLDVET]

I humped an M14 around for two years while I was in the Army. Being an Armorer while in the Army, I had access to cases of ammo to fire. It was all military ammo though, so when I read the warning Springfield offered I began to wonder. I figured the .308 ammo was okay. This site reaches a large number of shooters, so I figured other people had experience with the M1a rifle. Thanks for your quick response to my inquiry.

 

[crash700]

I have used mine extensively with 150 grain soft point hunting ammo. I have never had a problem out of mine and have a buddy who does the same. Im sure its possible, just does not seem probable from my experience. Maybe someone with more experience than me will chime in.

 

[Outbreak]

I recently purchased a Springfield M1A rifle. The enclosed literature had a full page on ammo to use in this rifle. They claim a person should only use military 7.62 Nato ammo. They claim that civilian .308 ammo might cause the rifle to slam fire. Most ranges in my area prohibit FMJ ammo. Has anyone experienced this slam fire using quality civilian ammo? I think Springfield is just covering their fanny, but I have seen photos on the internet where M1A rifles have exploded.

Are you talking about a slamfire, or a kaboom?

The slamfire could be more likely with civilian ammo due to softer primers than .mil ammo. I don't know if the M1A has a floating firing pin, but I know the SKS does, and I've had slamfires with mine. There's no damage to the rifle.

A slamfire is when the rifle fires as the bolt closes, because the firing pin keeps going into the primer, even as the bolt stops. It has nothing to do with a kaboom.

I also don't remember the difference between .308Win and 7.62X51mm, as far as which is more powerful. If civilian .308 is the higher pressure of the two, then theoretically a kaboom could result if the rifle was only designed to 7.62NATO pressures.

 

[Texas1911]

The slam fire issue is largely due to commercial Federal primers being considerably softer than military and other primers. While I have never seen, nor had, a slam fire out of any M1 series rifle that does not mean they cannot happen. The M1 does have a floating firing pin, as does the M16, and when the bolt slams into battery the pin will leave a soft hit on the primer, ergo the propensity for softer primers to cook off.

I personally think it is a none issue for commercial ammo. However, with reloading it is very easy for someone to leave a high primer, and in this case you will more than likely cause a slam fire. This can cause the gun to fire automatically if it is a subsequent round, but is due to an ammo malfunction, not a physical malfunction of the trigger mechanism.

Another issue that has built up the mantra around M1 slam fires is the operation of the gun. Too many M1 newbies don't bother reading up on operation of the rifles and subsequently drop the bolt from a held back postion onto an already half chambered round (rather than feeding it off the mag). This gives the bolt alot more force as it rams home the round, and this gives a much harder hit on the primer. M1s should ALWAYS be loaded off the magazine if at all possible. If you have a malfunction and a round is partially chambered, you ride the bolt carrier mostly into battery and hit the charging handle forward to lock the bolt.

The difference in 7.62 NATO and .308 is headspace tolerance. The headspace on the M1A is given to you when you buy the rifle. This ensures that the chamber is moderated to shoot either ammunition as too long of a headspace will cause case failure with the weaker (and often hotter) .308 WIN, and too short of a headspace will cause malfunctions with the various types of ammo out there.

Combine all of this with the potential for lawsuits and severe injury / death, and you have the slamfire fiasco.

 

[tenfeathers]

It does happen I have had 2 slam fires both with winchester commercial ammo, never with surplus ammo.
Not saying all commercial ammo will do that , but the rifle was designed to shoot 7.62x51 military ball ammo.

 

[OLDVET]

I plan to shot only my reloads in the M1A and I will be choosy in the primers I use. I always check my fired cases to gage the amount the shoulder has been displaced. I have read that an AR or M1A will leave a slight dimple in the primer of an unfired round. Apparently the firing pin moves forward just enough as the bolt into battery to strike the primer, but not enough (usually) to fire the primer. As with all weapons you must err on the side of caution. Thanks for all your information. I am new to this site, but I figured someone probably had experience with this slam-fire situation. As far as the Kaboom affect. I have seen pictures of this and talked with people who has been around a shooter when this happens. I hope I never experience this. A shooter at an outdoor range I support had this happen to him. He was shooting lead bullets through his Model 23. The Glock finally had enough and let go. The range called 911 and the guy was taken to a nearby hospital with serious facial and hand injuries. The slide and barrel were found 7 yards down range, the frame and magazine were toast. Glocks are great guns, but you have to follow the manufacturers recommendations. This guy was an idiot and it finally came home to bite him.

 

[Texas1911]

It does happen I have had 2 slam fires both with winchester commercial ammo, never with surplus ammo.
Not saying all commercial ammo will do that , but the rifle was designed to shoot 7.62x51 military ball ammo.

So you inserted a magazine, dropped the bolt, and it cooked off a round?

I have seen people accidently bumpfire an M1 because they let it rock too much.

 

[Wandering Scot]

If you plan on only doing reloads and use good quality primers and don't set them too shallow you should never have an issue.
I humped an M14 several years and still own a Scout model that gets used pretty frequently.
I've used both Black Hill and American Eagle rounds with no issue.

 

[tenfeathers]

So you inserted a magazine, dropped the bolt, and it cooked off a round?

I have seen people accidently bumpfire an M1 because they let it rock too much.

Yes that's right it fired the first round and one right after that with out pulling the trigger ,that has happened twice but with the winchester ammo only.
I never shoot commercial ammo any more.

 

[Outbreak]

since Texas1911 confirmed my suspicions about the floating firing pin, I'll recommend the same solution that works on the SKS. Clean your bolt. Disassemble it, remove the firing pin, and make sure both the pin and the firing pin channel are completely clean and dry. In the commie rifles, a lot of times the whole rifle is caked in cosmoline, and eventually it collects dirt and hardens in the firing pin channel, which can cause the firing pin to stick resulting in slamfire. I've heard of SKS's slamming through the entire magazine, only stopping when empty. You should be able to shake your bolt and hear the firing pin moving freely.

 

[wrtanker]

When I got my M1A 30-some years ago the manual had the same caution about using non-miltary ammo. The explanation was that the chamber was cut to mil spec which was not as tight as most civilian rifles. Military ammo was said to have stronger cases and held up better in the looser chamber. I haven't fired any civilian ammo so I can't say.

 

[AusTex]

I have had a Galil slam fire right next to me ... considering no one was expecting it, we were laying prone, and the barrel was literally a foot to my right and a foot in front of me.. it was loud and not pleasant.

not a .308 but same concept he was shooting civi ammo in a military rifle... its unlikely but it can happen

 

[Texas1911]

Yes that's right it fired the first round and one right after that with out pulling the trigger ,that has happened twice but with the winchester ammo only.
I never shoot commercial ammo any more.

That's always interesting.

I've seen bolt rifles do it.

 

[medalguy]

I've seen bolt rifles do it. That I'd like to see.....maybe.

 

[Texas1911]

I've seen bolt rifles do it. That I'd like to see.....maybe.

Tune a trigger below the 1# threshold and it sometimes can do that.

 

[Outbreak]

Is that really a slamfire, though? That just seems like an unsafe weapon, to me. My number one safety device on any gun is keeping my booger hook off the bang switch. If a gun will fire even without me touching the trigger, I'd consider that more hazardous than the slamfires we've been talking about. The slamfire is a malfunction that can be corrected with a little cleaning (usually), while the intentional lightening of a trigger to that point is just that-intentional.

 

[Texas1911]

Just part of it when you start messing with the trigger.

 

[tenfeathers]

You sir are a unique person to have seen that happen twice <G>