Teaching those who have no experience with firearms and dealing with a pushy husband.

[bigtex10mm]

I recently built and sold an AR15 to one of my employees, who has never shot guns at all. He asked me if I could show him how the gun operates and how to properly shoot it. I met him at the range I use for such training and he showed up with his wife, who also had no experience. I had brought my Ruger SR-22 pistol and my Walther PK380 with about 100 rounds of ammo for each. I spent an hour at a table going over gun safety and handling over a cup of coffee. I then spent a while talking about grip, trigger pull and sight alignment. I provided them with safety glasses to wear and had some ear plugs we use at the plant, and explained how critical it was to protect those young ears and eyes. His wife fell in love with the Ruger, but did not like the .380 due to muzzle blast and recoil. I was a little upset with him about pushing her to shoot the .380 and told him if he continued he could loose her as a shooting partner. He told her he had seen a gun he was going to buy for her and I then told him not to do it that way, but to take her and let her "try on" several different guns to find the one she liked. She agreed and he finally understood why I suggested it. I have been training people in basic firearms handling and target shooting for over 20 years and unfortunately I have seen this scenario many times where the husband tries to push the wife/girlfriend too quickly into a larger caliber....and in some cases turns them off to shooting all together. In this day and age we need to indoctrinate as many new shooters as possible to the fun that can be had at the range. He came by my house Sunday and thanked me for what I did and how I did it. His wife was with him and she gave me a hug and when she thanked me she handed me an envelope. Since I sold him the AR I didn't charge him for the session. She paid me for my time, and I hoped I hoped it was because I had created another recreational shooter.

 

[jrbfishn]

That is a pretty good way to do it.
For those with no experience, and even those that do, I start with safety rules and range ettiquete first. Then grip and stance, body position and how to aim. And I almost always start new shooters with .22lr. It lets them see they can do it in a quiet, non intimidating platform. Then progress from there as their confidence level goes up. But only as far as their confidence level. I have seen some kids progress far faster than a lot of adults. Even men.
I will normally let them try different guns and types. As I do, I show them why one fits them better than the others might. What to look for in one they might shoot better than most or why they can handle the recoil better even of the same caliber. What to look for when they buy their own that fits THEM, not other people.
And I seldom charge them other than ammo.
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

 

[ronr68]

When my wife showed an interest in shooting, I signed her for an introductory class. She insisted I take the class too. It went pretty well, but she has yet to pick up another firearm. That’s OK because she tried, but didn’t care for it.

 

[Cool 'Horn Luke]

When my wife showed an interest in shooting, I signed her for an introductory class. She insisted I take the class too. It went pretty well, but she has yet to pick up another firearm. That’s OK because she tried, but didn’t care for it.

If she hasn't been already, now might be the time to have her start watching some actual defensive use videos. Might provide the cause and effect to personal protection.

 

[Younggun]

I’d say it’s generally best for husbands and wives not to get too involved in learning to shoot together. Or husbands trying to teach their wives.

I get along pretty good with my wife. Plenty of mutual respect. But when she decided to learn to shoot handguns it went pretty poorly at first. We were able to work out the issues but it just isn’t ideal.

I have bought guns for my wife though. They are some of my favorites to shoot, lol. I think she knows exactly what I’m doing though.

 

[skfullgun]

If she hasn't been already, now might be the time to have her start watching some actual defensive use videos. Might provide the cause and effect to personal protection.

Any suggestions on where to start with the videos? That would likely be a good review for many of us. Thanks!

And good on the OP for bringing new shooters to the fold!

 

[leVieux]

<>

We have experienced same.

Son, the ‘’ATF’’ Guy, has all sorts of instructor credentials; civilian, military, & LEO.

My Wife is an excellent ‘’natural shot’’. Instructors always tell that they intended to give her advice re her techniques, but once they see her targets, they don’t.

So, when she goes for ‘’instruction’’, I stay home.

leVieux

.

 

[Cool 'Horn Luke]

Damn it, you're puttin' me on the spot here, lol! I always just seem to end up on those videos without realizing how I got there. On youboob, probably just starting with "police" or "defensive" would get you started. There's many here that are WAY better at that than I am. Here, "dirtbags taking a dirt nap" is full of them.

 

[benenglish]

...I have seen this scenario many times where the husband ... turns them off to shooting...

I have had a tiny amount of experience teaching a group of children while parents were watching. The instructors who set up the class had a strong rule requiring parents to stay about 20 yards behind the firing line and say absolutely nothing to their kids during live fire. With two instructors and three assistants (who were all NRA certified in both Basic Pistol and RSO), they had the situation under control.

Parental involvement would have been a disaster.

tl;dr - Teaching should be done by disinterested third parties. Others, especially family members, really should be kept well away.

 

[benenglish]

Any suggestions on where to start with the videos?

Active Self Protection on YT.

Some people hate the primary mouthpiece for that organization but he definitely breaks things down in an easy-to-understand way with a strong emphasis on the principles motivating the actions.

 

[Glenn B]

I recently built and sold an AR15 to one of my employees, who has never shot guns at all. He asked me if I could show him how the gun operates and how to properly shoot it. I met him at the range I use for such training and he showed up with his wife, who also had no experience. I had brought my Ruger SR-22 pistol and my Walther PK380 with about 100 rounds of ammo for each. I spent an hour at a table going over gun safety and handling over a cup of coffee. I then spent a while talking about grip, trigger pull and sight alignment. I provided them with safety glasses to wear and had some ear plugs we use at the plant, and explained how critical it was to protect those young ears and eyes. His wife fell in love with the Ruger, but did not like the .380 due to muzzle blast and recoil. I was a little upset with him about pushing her to shoot the .380 and told him if he continued he could loose her as a shooting partner. He told her he had seen a gun he was going to buy for her and I then told him not to do it that way, but to take her and let her "try on" several different guns to find the one she liked. She agreed and he finally understood why I suggested it. I have been training people in basic firearms handling and target shooting for over 20 years and unfortunately I have seen this scenario many times where the husband tries to push the wife/girlfriend too quickly into a larger caliber....and in some cases turns them off to shooting all together. In this day and age we need to indoctrinate as many new shooters as possible to the fun that can be had at the range. He came by my house Sunday and thanked me for what I did and how I did it. His wife was with him and she gave me a hug and when she thanked me she handed me an envelope. Since I sold him the AR I didn't charge him for the session. She paid me for my time, and I hoped I hoped it was because I had created another recreational shooter.

Nice job.

 

[FireInTheWire]

I taught my wife and 3 kids gun safety and how to shoot. They make me proud.

I have learned that women are natural shooters. My wife, sister and niece can shoot lights out.

First gun I bought my wife was a .380 bodyguard. We quickly learned that we hated that gun. The best thing a new shooter can do is go into a gun store and see what fits their hand and is comfortable.

 

[DaBull]

I've introduced a handful of friends and their family/friends to shooting. About half were women. Women definitely need different training than men to be successfully introduced to gun culture. Most of what newbie women (and men) know about guns comes from Hollywood, which is far from knowledgeable and tends to perpetuate myths. Hollywood attracts men to weapons, so I'll focus on the problem it causes for women. Put simply, women often fear recoil and dislike thinking about the damage "high powered" weapons will do to people, particularly innocent bystanders should they miss.

To counter the recoil myth, it is important to start with a .22LR, and not upgrade the caliber until the .22 starts to bore the shooter. Two women I worked with did not continue shooting after the first lesson. Both told me that the pistol scared them because they did not feel like they had "control" of it. This was partly due to the pistols grip shape/size, but mostly due to the increase in recoil. They did not even want to go back to 22s to build their skills and confidence. So to me, the key is maintain their motivation to continue shooting during the training process.

Control is related to the second issue: terminal effects. Its one thing to shoot paper, it is another to shoot a person. After a lesson, one women said she could never shoot a person. I countered with the usual self defense arguments regarding parking lots and home burglary hypotheticals. This sometimes ended with "I'll fire a warning shot". I did learn that the most successful argument was to ask if they would shoot if the perp was heading to their kids' bedroom. That worked every single time with a mother. It was shoot to kill.

Other concerns: let a women pick her gun, even if it is nothing like what the husband wants in terms of caliber, brand, model, or color. Don't try to make her "look" like a Taran Tactical shooter in the near term, the goal is to have her KEEP SHOOTING, learning and growing. If you are lucky, she will upgrade her pink 22 to a stainless 9 in a year. Don't interrupt that process.

Finally, after I teach a lot of the basics to a new female shooter, if my wife is around, I have her take over the watching, fine tuning, and correcting.

 

[benenglish]

An anecdote about third party interference seems appropriate.

I was spotting for a shooter at a pistol silhouette match. He didn't know me but none of his friends were willing to take up the task so I volunteered.

At the 150 meter turkeys, I was properly set up to watch his bullets in flight. Unfortunately, the berm was covered in vegetation so no one could see the impact of misses. I was the only person who could because I was watching the bullets fly downrange.

He was shooting a turkey sized group about a foot above the turkeys. If he had had a proper zero, he would have probably scored at least 12 of 20. (This was an 80-round match.) For the first ten rounds, I kept telling him he was high. He just couldn't believe me. I was a stranger to him.

The first shot of his third string (shot #11) he flinched badly and threw the shot way low. As I told him to ignore that one, a half-dozen of his friends behind the line started screaming at him that he was shooting low. Despite everything I had said, he listened to them, reached for a screwdriver, and raised his rear sight several clicks.

After that string, I packed up my scope and walked off the line. My only other option was to scream at the spectators and I wasn't going to create a situation that screwed up everybody by creating a distraction for the shooters on the line who needed to concentrate. I wasn't doing the shooter any disservice, btw. Once a shooter has lost faith in their spotter, the presence of the spotter is a net negative to his final score.

He didn't hit another target on turkeys. He went on to rams where the berm was far, far behind the targets and not as covered in vegetation. I think he hit 2 out of 20 and by the end figured out that he was shooting high.

tl:dr - Input from people you know and trust will override input from the person whose job is helping you. That's just human nature and it can defeat the intentions of even the best instructors.

PS - That sport now has a rule against spectators trying to coach from behind the line. It wasn't a result of this incident but I suppose similar stuff happened enough times that the rule got added. I honestly don't know if the rule existed at the time of this story but the story still shouldn't have happened. Those spectators were, at best, rude and incompetent because they didn't have the information to make a call and they should have known that.

 

[Sam7sf]

I helped teach a female parole instructor. She hadn’t had much time and only had two days lol. So I let her use my service glock and a rem870 and basically took almost all my guns out to show her different action types and how to clear each one. Can assume she would have to confiscate some common guns or maybe not so common.

She did good. Showed her the standards for pistol and shotgun at the range. Shooting and reloading methods. The husband wasn’t too bad but as typical would offer her loose advice based on his limited hunting experience I guess.

Guess I did a good job. She came back with a smile and said she passed with flying colors and her instructor was like: well someone was training.

 

[benenglish]

Other concerns include letting the women pick her gun...the goals is to have her KEEP SHOOTING...

The importance of that cannot be over-stressed.

Cooper on Handguns has a section on choosing a defensive firearm. The first step was to ask "Do you shoot regularly for fun?" If the answer is yes, the instructor should simply reply "Fine. Use that."

That doesn't work in every case; obviously a skeet shooter can't conceal their shotgun on their belt. But for home defense, two center-mass shots from a shotgun that the shooter knows intimately are far more likely to end a threat than six misses with a .44 magnum.

Once someone is shooting regularly for fun for some time, they'll know enough to make a valid choice for a defensive firearm. Maybe not the best choice but at least a workable one.

 

[bbbass]

Active Self Protection on YT.

Some people hate the primary mouthpiece for that organization but he definitely breaks things down in an easy-to-understand way with a strong emphasis on the principles motivating the actions.

I don't understand the "hate" or dislike.

Have you seen the curly hair and long beard growth... makes me laugh and call out Larry/Moe/Curly Joe. LOL

 

[popper]

third party interference -- biggest problem in training! Was watching some kids get training by grownups that knew how. I tried to keep my mouth shut, eventually made a recommendation to one kid that was having a problem - problem solved. I was watching, they were busy supervising.

 

[benenglish]

...she passed with flying colors and her instructor was like: well someone was training.

It's amazing how little instruction it takes to make a complete novice into a competent shooter who can be safe and stay on target.

It's also amazing how little angry input from an impatient spouse it takes to turn an interested novice into someone who never wants to hold a gun again.

 

[benenglish]

I don't understand the "hate" or dislike.

It seems to boil down to "He's never had a job where he had to carry a gun so he should never talk about defensive gun use."

That kind of hate comes from the same people who will tell you that you should never take a class from someone who doesn't have LEO or military experience.

I'll do y'all a favor and stifle my urge to go on a rant...