Texas power grid almost reached capacity yesterday due to heat !

[TheDan]

one solar farm already has been hammered by hail

Sounds like poor operation or initial design. Most panels are rated for 1" hail at normal installation angle, and rating goes up the steeper the angle. If they had parked the panels at the steepest angle they could they likely wouldn't have been damaged. Of course they might have been installed at a fixed angle so that would just be poor planning or cheaping out.

 

[TheDan]

Re topic - And then there's this... hitting today.

VIDEO: Officials Issue 'Severe' Geomagnetic Solar Storm Watch Alert

Officials say a powerful solar storm will hit Earth on Friday and its arrival could cause infrastructure problems.

www.breitbart.com

Clouds aren't cooperating today, but if it clears up I'll try to get a picture myself.

 

[wakosama]

went down for an hour + last nite my area.

 

[oldag]

Re topic - And then there's this... hitting today.

VIDEO: Officials Issue 'Severe' Geomagnetic Solar Storm Watch Alert

Officials say a powerful solar storm will hit Earth on Friday and its arrival could cause infrastructure problems.

www.breitbart.com

We get notice of these warnings at least several times each year. So far, nothing at all has happened over the past decade or so.

 

[oldag]

Sounds like poor operation or initial design. Most panels are rated for 1" hail at normal installation angle, and rating goes up the steeper the angle. If they had parked the panels at the steepest angle they could they likely wouldn't have been damaged. Of course they might have been installed at a fixed angle so that would just be poor planning or cheaping out.

Hail does not always fall straight down. Sometimes the storm winds can bring it in at a pretty good angle. And several solar sites have been hit by hail much larger than 1" in the past year. Besides, the remote control center would have to know that large hail was falling at the site if they were to know to change the tracker angles. And most ROC's don't have this knowledge. They are not going to change the tracker angle every time large hail is possible.

 

[Wiliamr]

As oldag sez... USUALLy hail is falling from a windy thunderstorm pushing 38 to 50 thousand feet tops. The updraft in the storm keeps the hail lifting and dropping till it gets large enough to overcome the lift of the updraft. Once the hail begins to fall outside the downdraft face, the winds are blowing outward with enough force to make them travel at an angle. Last month's hail storm here sent 2 - 2.5 inch hail sideways at about 45 degrees from the vertical. Last night Fredericksburg had hail in the 6.25 inch range, and hail in the area ran to about 4 inch hail very common.

 

[Sam Colt]

Well what good is he as governor if he can't even do something to make that happen? He hasn't done crap on it.

He’s governor, not Führer.

 

[TheDan]

And most ROC's don't have this knowledge. They are not going to change the tracker angle every time large hail is possible.

Ah, poor operation then. They'll probably pay closer attention to the weather next time.

Last month's hail storm here sent 2 - 2.5 inch hail sideways at about 45 degrees from the vertical.

Unless the wind was coming directly from the direction the panels were facing, that would make the angle of attack more favorable.

 

[oldag]

Ah, poor operation then. They'll probably pay closer attention to the weather next time.

Unless the wind was coming directly from the direction the panels were facing, that would make the angle of attack more favorable.

I don't think you understand how the industry works. As a rule, solar sites are not manned. And weather forecasting is not such that you can pinpoint the exact location of hail. Plus ROC's don't have enough people in them to have a person dedicated to monitoring every site where storms are present. That would be cost prohibitive. So no, nothing will change.

And two to four inch hail is going to do its damage regardless of angle.

Things are often not as simple as they seem.

 

[TheDan]

That would be cost prohibitive. So no, nothing will change

Then hail isn't really an issue, and is a red herring to why solar panel fields might be a dumb idea to begin with.

 

[oldag]

Then hail isn't really an issue, and is a red herring to why solar panel fields might be a dumb idea to begin with.

Renewables can be an adjunct to thermal and nuclear. But they are way too high a percentage of generation in Texas.

And they are not really financially attractive anymore if the taxpayer funded subsidies go away.

 

[2ManyGuns]

FWIW, Tuesday I will be commissioning and bringing a new 134MW solar field onto the ERCOT grid.
Maybe that will help a tiny bit.

Honest question. How is the EXCESS energy generated by solar farms stored? I remember many years ago there was the idea of spinning up flywheels to store rotational energy, that could be converted to useable energy when the sun set.

 

[Tnhawk]

Well what good is he as governor if he can't even do something to make that happen? He hasn't done crap on it.

Should have elected Beto!

 

[TXAZ]

Honest question. How is the EXCESS energy generated by solar farms stored? I remember many years ago there was the idea of spinning up flywheels to store rotational energy, that could be converted to useable energy when the sun set.

It’s NOT stored. What happens is the nuclear / natural gas and other power plants on the grid throttle down as solar production increases. You could say however, that indirectly the energy is stored in unused fuel. Not technically correct but a reasonable picture.

With most non-reliable power production (like wind and solar) connected to a grid, the grid operators still have to provide 100% capacity when there is no sunlight or wind,,,,,, Or have rolling blackouts.

 

[Younggun]

It’s NOT stored. What happens is the nuclear / natural gas and other power plants on the grid throttle down as solar production increases. You could say however, that indirectly the energy is stored in unused fuel. Not technically correct but a reasonable picture.

If anything, I’d say it is technically correct. We generate power from the stored energy of those fuels daily.

Only difference is we can choose when to tap in to those stores, and with solar and wind we are at the whims of Mother Nature and a day/night cycle.

I’ve seen a lot of crazy ideas for storing solar/wind energy. Most are either uneconomical or just plain unfeasible. Everything from pumping water in to large reservoirs on hills to run through turbines later, to massive battery warehouses.

 

[no2gates]

If anything, I’d say it is technically correct. We generate power from the stored energy of those fuels daily.

Only difference is we can choose when to tap in to those stores, and with solar and wind we are at the whims of Mother Nature and a day/night cycle.

I’ve seen a lot of crazy ideas for storing solar/wind energy. Most are either uneconomical or just plain unfeasible. Everything from pumping water in to large reservoirs on hills to run through turbines later, to massive battery warehouses.

The dual-reservoir system is pretty brilliant, and probably more efficient and longer lasting than giant battery farms.

 

[Bad Hombre]

Should have elected Beto!

Well, I'm not sure things would be much different that they are anyway. Abbott hasn't done much good that I can tell.

 

[smittyb]

Honest question. How is the EXCESS energy generated by solar farms stored? I remember many years ago there was the idea of spinning up flywheels to store rotational energy, that could be converted to useable energy when the sun set.

It’s NOT stored. What happens is the nuclear / natural gas and other power plants on the grid throttle down as solar production increases. You could say however, that indirectly the energy is stored in unused fuel. Not technically correct but a reasonable picture.

With most non-reliable power production (like wind and solar) connected to a grid, the grid operators still have to provide 100% capacity when there is no sunlight or wind,,,,,, Or have rolling blackouts.

If anything, I’d say it is technically correct. We generate power from the stored energy of those fuels daily.

Only difference is we can choose when to tap in to those stores, and with solar and wind we are at the whims of Mother Nature and a day/night cycle.

I’ve seen a lot of crazy ideas for storing solar/wind energy. Most are either uneconomical or just plain unfeasible. Everything from pumping water in to large reservoirs on hills to run through turbines later, to massive battery warehouses.

What they said.
I will add, we are bringing battery storage sites online left and right. Are they enough to amount to anything? Not really, but they keep building the shit out of em.

 

[Steve In Texas]

Well, I'm not sure things would be much different that they are anyway. Abbott hasn't done much good that I can tell.

Abbott and ERCOT and Texas face the entire Federal burearacy in the Electric game. We have accomplished some, but the fight is long.

 

[oldag]

It’s NOT stored. What happens is the nuclear / natural gas and other power plants on the grid throttle down as solar production increases. You could say however, that indirectly the energy is stored in unused fuel. Not technically correct but a reasonable picture.

With most non-reliable power production (like wind and solar) connected to a grid, the grid operators still have to provide 100% capacity when there is no sunlight or wind,,,,,, Or have rolling blackouts.

That is not entirely correct. Battery energy storage systems are being built at a healthy clip. However, they are not of adequate capacity to make up for the unreliability and solar and wind.

And they are not economically sound either.