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Theory that CHL+ Concealed handgun = I can carry an illegal knife/club

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  • txinvestigator

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    Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

    What does "traveling" have to do with anything? What does the non applicability for security have to do with anything? The law for security USED to only make it lawful while travelin "directly" to or from work.


    Regarding 46.15(b), it reads "section 46.02 does not apply to a person who,". meaning that if a person meets the description to follow, then 46.02 does not apply. 46.02 outlaws the carry of handguns, illegal knives and clubs. Following that train, that means a person described in 46.15(b) is not proscribed from carrying a handgun, illegal knife or club.

    That means a person who is traveling may carry a handgun, illegal knife or club. The definition of traveling is not relevant to this discussion.

    Notice that for hunting, fishing and other lawful sporting activity you are restricted to a weapon "commonly used in that activity" The legislators could have easily used language to restrict the CHL holder to handguns, but they did not.

    What they did do is use language that excludes the non-applicability for those carrying a handgun of the improper category.

    A person who is carrying a concealed handgun license, and a handgun of the proper category, does not have 46.02 applicable to them. A restrictive phrase could have easily been included to exclude illegal knives and clubs. Such as "this sub section only applies to the carry of handguns", or "illegal knives and clubs are not included in this sub section"


    By examining the language for security officers one can ascertain that they too, can carry illegal knives and clubs. Security officers are not required to receive any training in other than handguns, either.

    It is clear
     

    BigRed82

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    Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

    The statute does not say "if you are carrying" but rather "to carry" - it is stating what you are allowed to do, something specific, rather than creating a qualifying requirement.

    (b)(6) says, "To carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying."
    Your interpretation is trying to read it to say "if/when carrying a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying."

    The statute does not, however, say if/when carrying. It says to carry. That difference significantly affects the meaning of the clause.

    Again, the best thing to do is to contact your local DA.
     
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    Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

    The statute does not say "if you are carrying" but rather "to carry" - it is stating what you are allowed to do, something specific, rather than creating a qualifying requirement.
    You are incorrect. 46.15 is a list of qualifying requirements. Also, it says "...license to carry". Why would it say "license if/when carry"? Are you just trying to be funny?
     

    BigRed82

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    Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

    What does "traveling" have to do with anything? What does the non applicability for security have to do with anything? The law for security USED to only make it lawful while travelin "directly" to or from work.


    Regarding 46.15(b), it reads "section 46.02 does not apply to a person who,". meaning that if a person meets the description to follow, then 46.02 does not apply. 46.02 outlaws the carry of handguns, illegal knives and clubs. Following that train, that means a person described in 46.15(b) is not proscribed from carrying a handgun, illegal knife or club.

    That means a person who is traveling may carry a handgun, illegal knife or club. The definition of traveling is not relevant to this discussion.
    You say used to in regards to the security applicability issue. Are you aware of a change in the law since August 2010 that has gone into effect?

    Regarding the irrelevance of the definition of traveling: Since there have been comments in this thread about what one can and cannot have with you when traveling, the definition of traveling is most certainly consequential to the discussion. How else would you know if the exemption applies to you? I don't see how the traveling exemption can be discussed without considering and understanding the definition of traveling. Goes hand in hand.

    Regarding my sense of humor, no. I think it is a dangerous interpretation to spread without getting official comment from the AG's office.
     
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    Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

    You say used to in regards to the security applicability issue. Are you aware of a change in the law since August 2010 that has gone into effect?

    Regarding the irrelevance of the definition of traveling: Since there have been comments in this thread about what one can and cannot have with you when traveling, the definition of traveling is most certainly consequential to the discussion. How else would you know if the exemption applies to you? I don't see how the traveling exemption can be discussed without considering and understanding the definition of traveling. Goes hand in hand.


    The traveling exception has nothing to do with the CHL exception. We all know the traveling exception is vague.
     

    txinvestigator

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    Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

    The statute does not say "if you are carrying" but rather "to carry" - it is stating what you are allowed to do, something specific, rather than creating a qualifying requirement.

    (b)(6) says, "To carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying."
    Your interpretation is trying to read it to say "if/when carrying a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying."

    The statute does not, however, say if/when carrying. It says to carry. That difference significantly affects the meaning of the clause.

    Again, the best thing to do is to contact your local DA.

    My point remains. It is clear that 46.02 does not apply to a person who is carrying a license AND a handgun of the proper category. It in no way restricts the non-appliability to only handguns.

    And yes, I am well aware of the change for Security Officers in 46.15(b). The word "directly" was removed. However, I think it was 2007, wasn't it? Or are you referring to 46.15 (d)?
     

    M. Sage

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    Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

    What does "traveling" have to do with anything? What does the non applicability for security have to do with anything? The law for security USED to only make it lawful while travelin "directly" to or from work.


    Regarding 46.15(b), it reads "section 46.02 does not apply to a person who,". meaning that if a person meets the description to follow, then 46.02 does not apply. 46.02 outlaws the carry of handguns, illegal knives and clubs. Following that train, that means a person described in 46.15(b) is not proscribed from carrying a handgun, illegal knife or club.

    That means a person who is traveling may carry a handgun, illegal knife or club. The definition of traveling is not relevant to this discussion.

    Notice that for hunting, fishing and other lawful sporting activity you are restricted to a weapon "commonly used in that activity" The legislators could have easily used language to restrict the CHL holder to handguns, but they did not.

    What they did do is use language that excludes the non-applicability for those carrying a handgun of the improper category.

    A person who is carrying a concealed handgun license, and a handgun of the proper category, does not have 46.02 applicable to them. A restrictive phrase could have easily been included to exclude illegal knives and clubs. Such as "this sub section only applies to the carry of handguns", or "illegal knives and clubs are not included in this sub section"


    By examining the language for security officers one can ascertain that they too, can carry illegal knives and clubs. Security officers are not required to receive any training in other than handguns, either.

    It is clear

    What he said. It clearly says that 46.02 does not apply to a licensed person that is carrying a concealed handgun of the proper category.
     
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    Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

    A restrictive phrase could have easily been included to exclude illegal knives and clubs. Such as "this sub section only applies to the carry of handguns", or "illegal knives and clubs are not included in this sub section"
    Even more simply, 46.15 (6) could have been written as "is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government code, to carry a handgun of the same category the person is carrying and is not carrying a club or illegal knife". But of course it isn't written that way.



    It is clear
    As an azure sky. As an unmuddied lake. To all but the most obtuse.
     

    txinvestigator

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    Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

    Even more simply, 46.15 (6) could have been written as "is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government code, to carry a handgun of the same category the person is carrying and is not carrying a club or illegal knife". But of course it isn't written that way.



    As an azure sky. As an unmuddied lake. To all but the most obtuse.

    Read 46.15(c) where the legislators made the "club" part of 46.02 non-aplicable to certain security guards. Had they wanted CHLers to only be able to carry handguns it could have been written the same.

    46.15
    (c) The provision of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a club does not apply to a noncommissioned security guard at an institution of higher education who carries a nightstick or similar club, and who has undergone 15 hours of training in the proper use of the club, including at least seven hours of training in the use of the club for nonviolent restraint.

    Change a few words and..................viola

    "The provision of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a handgun does not apply to a person who is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying"
     

    SC-Texas

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    Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

    Are we still arguing about this?
     

    BigRed82

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    Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

    As an azure sky. As an unmuddied lake. To all but the most obtuse.

    I understand your construction of it, and you may be right. Without case law or an AG opinion, there is no way to know how a DA would pursue it. Still, I'll let you be the first one to strap a katana on your back and walk down 6th Street.
     

    Texan2

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    Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

    I strapped on a Katana and walked down 6th St. already.....
    but due to my stealthy ninja skills no one saw me!

     

    BigRed82

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    Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

    I strapped on a Katana and walked down 6th St. already.....
    but due to my stealthy ninja skills no one saw me!

    If the forum had a "Like" button for posts, this would definitely have one. ;)
     
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    Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

    Read 46.15(c) where the legislators made the "club" part of 46.02 non-aplicable to certain security guards. Had they wanted CHLers to only be able to carry handguns it could have been written the same.



    Change a few words and..................viola

    "The provision of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a handgun does not apply to a person who is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying"

    Yep, they also could have done that. There are many ways it could have been written to only cover handguns. I don't believe the way it is written was an oversight.
     
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    Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

    I understand your construction of it, and you may be right. Without case law or an AG opinion, there is no way to know how a DA would pursue it. Still, I'll let you be the first one to strap a katana on your back and walk down 6th Street.
     

    matefrio

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    Re: Theory that CHL+Concealed handgun=I can carry an illegal knife/club

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