This Gun Instructor Says Many Who Carry A Gun Aren't Trained To Respond To A Shooter

[SQLGeek]

Filed under the heading, With friends like these...courtesy of NPR.

"You would need more training than 50 percent of the sworn active law enforcement officers in this country ever get. "

http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2017/11/08/mass-shootings-gun-owners

Evidently NPR found the one instructor and gun dealer they happen to agree with.

A tour through Mike "The Gun Guy's" Twitter page is quite enlightening as well. I'm not sure I've ever seen a gun dealer or instructor use the phrase "Gun sense" quite so much if at all.

 

[karlac]

Filed under the heading, With friends like these...courtesy of NPR.

"You would need more training than 50 percent of the sworn active law enforcement officers in this country ever get. "

Except that someone did ...

 

[Longhorn1986]

This guy owns a "gun store" in Massachusetts. Yeah, he speaks for us in Texas

That guy makes Elmer Fudd look like Ted Nugent!

 

[GeorgeandSugar]

I have no problem having more armed citizens on the street. That armed citizen can decide if they want to engaged a bad guy. If I thought I could help stop a bad guy hurting or attempting to kill innocent people, I would. Moreover, pulling a gun might be enough to deter a bad guy. Bad guys prefer weakness. Any strength demonstrated would likely cause them to fled. Having an armed citizenry is deterrence to put bad guys on notice. Anything coming out of NPR is always suspect.


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[oldag]

Facts belie his assertions.

 

[Lunyfringe]

well, how else do you expect him to sell more classes, unless they're mandated?

At the very least, he's selling the idea of more classes.

 

[easy rider]

It's everyone's natural reaction to find cover if one is unsure of where it's coming from or what it might be. I'm not sure what "Mike" is suggesting when stating that. Unless you are ready at all times for the unexpected, which I doubt anyone could be, or you just don't care about yourself, I don't see even the most highly trained persons reacting in a split second when it's time to pull out a gun and shoot back. Now I certainly don't know, and am not sure if I will ever know, if there were any in that church that were carrying or why any that may have been didn't shoot back. It's much easier to speculate sitting in an interview or even from behind a computer, what one would do or what others should do in a situation like that. All I can say is I would much rather have options other than waiting my turn to die.

 

[Younggun]

If you have to jump out of a plane would you rather have a parachute and no training, or would you jump without a parachute because you haven't been trained to use one?

I think most would prefer to take it and pull the cord despite their lack of Airborne Infantry training.

 

[Kar98]

"The only time that the federal government has passed a gun control law in the last 50 years has been when there was a southern liberal in the White House and a blue Congress. That alignment not only doesn't exist — we're about as far away from it as we could ever be."

Uhm... GCA 1968, Hughes Amendment 1986, AWB 1994, Brady Bill 1993, to rattle off just the major gun control mile stones in the last 50 years...

 

[Younggun]

It's everyone's natural reaction to find cover if one is unsure of where it's coming from or what it might be. I'm not sure what "Mike" is suggesting when stating that. Unless you are ready at all times for the unexpected, which I doubt anyone could be, or you just don't care about yourself, I don't see even the most highly trained persons reacting in a split second when it's time to pull out a gun and shoot back. Now I certainly don't know, and am not sure if I will ever know, if there were any in that church that were carrying or why any that may have been didn't shoot back. It's much easier to speculate sitting in an interview or even from behind a computer, what one would do or what others should do in a situation like that. All I can say is I would much rather have options other than waiting my turn to die.

This.

I also get pretty tired of hearing about LE training. We've seen plenty of examples that show LE aren't typically exemplary shots. My BiL is a DPS officer, I've shot with him several times. I also keep my mouth shut when he is throwing every shot left and talking about applying more pressure with the thumb of his support hand to push the muzzle to the right.

It's dishonest to compare the training needed for someone who is going to move from relative safety in to a building with one or more active shooters as the member of a team to a person who may happen to find them self in a very bad situation, or in a situation where they may be in a position to respond and save lives. The latter may have the ability to have a very positive effect with much less training and will likely be in a position to stop a bad guy much more quickly than LE. Willeford for example, engaged the shooter and stopped him from continuing to kill innocents, followed his vehicle with the help of another citizen, and was on scene where the vehicle went off the road for 5-7 minutes before local LE arrived. The vehicle was heading in the direction of another church when it went off the road and more loaded magazines were found in the vehicle. It's impossible to know the shooters plans but it's very possible he would have continued his rampage at another church had he not been stopped by an armed citizen.

Training or not, it seems to me that more armed citizens increase the likelihood that someone may be in a position to bring an end to such evil acts far more quickly than LE. It's by no means a requirement to react, but it is an option for someone who finds their self in a position to do so or in a position where they are in eminent danger where the choice is to die, or fight and maybe live.

This guy would have the average citizen die while waiting for someone with "proper training" to arrive.

 

[busykngt]

Couple of comments and a question. First, when the media wants to push “their agenda”, it doesn’t surprise me at all, they can search high and low until they find “someone” to quote in order to advance their position.
Secondly, Mr. Weisser desperately needs to break his bad grammatical habit of saying, “you know” all the time. And no, I’m not a grammar Nazi - it just makes him come across as not being very well educated. Maybe in his case, “if the shoe fits...”. Now that he’s had his fifteen minutes of fame, hopefully he’ll step aside as a “gun spokesman” for the rest of us.
Finally my question, he made the point, it would be absurd to think nobody in a small, Texas rural church wouldn’t be carrying. Has anyone read where any of the folks in the church were packin’? (I’m guessing Mr. Weisser was just expressing a stero-typical dy belief about Texans - and he doesn’t really know whereof he speaks).

 

[Kar98]

Right? See the recent Walmart shooting in Thornton, Colo. Took police an hour to actually dare to go inside AFTER the shooter had already left, only to them to start bitching that just about every customer inside pulled his or her own gun and it was soooooo hard to find out who the shooter was, going over the video footage.

 

[Younggun]

I don't think it's absurd at all. People become comfortable in their surroundings, especially in a small town. For many in small towns or living in more rural areas they will grab a gun to head to the pasture but not to go to the grocery store or church.

I think it's very believable that not one person in that small church would be armed. Hell, I'm guilty of it. I often head in to my small town unarmed but if I head to the city I carry. This event has made me reconsider my reasoning behind that decision.

 

[easy rider]

This.

I also get pretty tired of hearing about LE training. We've seen plenty of examples that show LE aren't typically exemplary shots. My BiL is a DPS officer, I've shot with him several times. I also keep my mouth shut when he is throwing every shot left and talking about applying more pressure with the thumb of his support hand to push the muzzle to the right.

It's dishonest to compare the training needed for someone who is going to move from relative safety in to a building with one or more active shooters as the member of a team to a person who may happen to find them self in a very bad situation, or in a situation where they may be in a position to respond and save lives. The latter may have the ability to have a very positive effect with much less training and will likely be in a position to stop a bad guy much more quickly than LE. Willeford for example, engaged the shooter and stopped him from continuing to kill innocents, followed his vehicle with the help of another citizen, and was on scene where the vehicle went off the road for 5-7 minutes before local LE arrived. The vehicle was heading in the direction of another church when it went off the road and more loaded magazines were found in the vehicle. It's impossible to know the shooters plans but it's very possible he would have continued his rampage at another church had he not been stopped by an armed citizen.

Training or not, it seems to me that more armed citizens increase the likelihood that someone may be in a position to bring an end to such evil acts far more quickly than LE. It's by no means a requirement to react, but it is an option for someone who finds their self in a position to do so or in a position where they are in eminent danger where the choice is to die, or fight and maybe live.

This guy would have the average citizen die while waiting for someone with "proper training" to arrive.

Not only that, but it's easier to train knowing that you are going to be in a situation where you will be drawing a handgun and shooting. You are expecting it. How many people do you suppose at that church expected that they may need to draw a gun and use it that day?

You could say that many branches of the military are highly trained for situations like that, but then when they do use that training in actual situations, they know that they may have to shoot at any moment. I'm not sure I would like living in a world where I feel that at any moment, on any day, I am going to draw a gun and shoot back. Yes, it could happen, but I'm not going to keep saying to myself "any moment now".

 

[Wildcat Diva]

I’m moving towards carrying all the time. Even some places I used to be afraid to or questioning if I really should. Unless it’s a hard no like a federal building, I’m more often than not, packing. And if I didn’t see your piddly, faded, small text, not legal 30.06 or gunbuster sign, and you didn’t spot me and reprimand me, well, oh well for you.

 

[Mikewood]

Active shooters are almost never a shoot this moment situation. That’s the nature of the conflict. You have time be it in church or a movie theater to find cover, assess and respond appropriately. That is unless you are the first guy who gets shot and it won’t matter then anyway because you can’t get off of yellow. Give most people a second or three to recognize they are in orange and ID the threat and the odds of them surviving and being victorious go up exponentially.


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[Kar98]

I’m moving towards carrying all the time.

Yeah, I'm moving from "10+1 rounds should be plenty for self defense" towards "screw it, lets make it 17+1"

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Yeah, I'm moving from "10+1 rounds should be plenty for self defense" towards "screw it, lets make it 17+1"

Plus an extra mag, I hope...

 

[Lunyfringe]

If you have to jump out of a plane would you rather have a parachute and no training, or would you jump without a parachute because you haven't been trained to use one?

I think most would prefer to take it and pull the cord despite their lack of Airborne Infantry training.

THIS ^^^ If the choice is to jump out of a plane that's going to crash or stay in it and die a horrible firey death, then yes- I'll jump out without training.

unless you're LE or MIL, you're not inserting yourselves into a situation where you're going to get shot at- but if some whackjob starts shooting up the place, at least you have options if you're armed.

Don't get me wrong, I'll all for training- the more available and accessible it is the better... but MANDATED training is what I'm afraid they're pushing- "so you want to remove my 2nd amendment right until I pay you money to train me to be worthy of it?" That's where I have a problem.

 

[busykngt]

...but MANDATED training is what I'm afraid they're pushing- "so you want to remove my 2nd amendment right until I pay you money to train me to be worthy of it?" That's where I have a problem.

And that’s exactly the intended agenda the article was designed to push. The semi-gun guy they got lined up to quote, either intentionally or unintentionally fell right into their trap.

His comment about somebody in that church was bound to be carrying, is completely off the mark in my opinion. At least I haven’t read that any of the victims were carrying. I’m inclined to think he just believes what he wants to believe, regardless of the facts. Which makes him the perfect kind of person to interview, once it’s determined his views align with the agenda you want to push.