This is why I tell people not to change oil at 15,000 miles...

[M. Sage]

Vehicle is a 2007 Audi Q7. 3.5 liter VR6 engine, holds (and was previously refilled with) 6 quarts of VW-spec synthetic oil. Filter was definitely changed at the last oil change because we did that one, too. The filter was almost entirely plugged with sludge; there was so much in the filter cap that I had to clean it out in the parts washer. The drain plug for the filter cap barely flowed because it was plugged with the stuff. And the oil pan is coated real thick now. The top end of the engine is likewise packed in this thick, nasty crap. Last oil change was just under 15,000 miles ago.

Change your oil and filter at 5,000 miles.

 

[Glockster69]

I assume Audi manual says 15000 mile oil/filter change?

Are you (can you) flush/clean the engine w/o disassembly?

How much will this "oil change" end up costing?

 

[Dcav]

Nice!

 

[cuate]

I have flushed several nasty, gunked up engines over the years and never let mine get into the condition shown above but, after draining the oil and removing the nasty filter, install a new filter which you will also remove and throw away after flushing, pour in the required capacity of good, red transmission oil, start the engine and let it idle three or four minutes, do not high rev the engine, drain and change filter again and refill with the oil recommended...Your bearings and moving parts will receive lubrication with transmission oil .

 

[winchster]

The only oil I ever let go to 15k has been amsoil. Doesn't look near that bad.

 

[jeepinbanditrider]

That's the same filter I used in my Supercharged Saturn Ion Redline. I changed that when the oil life reminder told me to which worked out to around 7ish k miles depending on how hard I drove it and how many times it went to the autocross courses. Never looked like that lol. I always ran Mobil 1 in it.

How many miles did that car have on it? I saw the inside of an engine out of a Chevy Caviler that went 10k on the factory fill oil (brand new) before it seized up. The oil in the pan was so thick you could almost stand a screw driver up in it. The owner wanted it replaced under warranty.

 

[M. Sage]

I assume Audi manual says 15000 mile oil/filter change?

Are you (can you) flush/clean the engine w/o disassembly?

How much will this "oil change" end up costing?

We just changed the oil and told them to ditch the car.

You can kind-of clean this crap out without a teardown, but most of the time you need to pull the oil pan and replace the pick-up tube when you're done, because that's where most of the crud that falls loose winds up. Plugged pick-up? No oil pressure... Pulling the pan on this vehicle, I'd have to remove the cross member, which pretty much means pulling the engine and trans. It's a job I've done (the V8 version of this and the Touareg and Cayenne require engine removal to change the STARTER), and IIRC it's about 16 hours to remove and reinstall the engine. Not replace and swap parts over. Just out and back in. They'd be pushing $2,000 in labor alone if I couldn't find a way to pull the oil pan without doing that...

I think the oil change wound up being about $200 total, because I did an 85K service. Which is basically an oil change that pays 1.2 hours.

 

[M. Sage]

That's the same filter I used in my Supercharged Saturn Ion Redline. I changed that when the oil life reminder told me to which worked out to around 7ish k miles depending on how hard I drove it and how many times it went to the autocross courses. Never looked like that lol. I always ran Mobil 1 in it.

How many miles did that car have on it? I saw the inside of an engine out of a Chevy Caviler that went 10k on the factory fill oil (brand new) before it seized up. The oil in the pan was so thick you could almost stand a screw driver up in it. The owner wanted it replaced under warranty.

It's a different filter, but a similar design. Everything from Europe runs a very similar filter (due mainly to recycling laws there), and a lot of American and Japanese cars have followed suit.

The total mileage on the vehicle was about 87,000.

 

[barstoolguru]

I would run some barrymans b-12 in it and do an engine wash. that will get all that sludge out

 

[Glockster69]

It's a job I've done (the V8 version of this and the Touareg and Cayenne require engine removal to change the STARTER) ...

You'd think Germans could design an auto a little better than that.

Years ago I heard rumors of Porshe and/or Lambo's (pick your own exotica) requiring engine removal just to change the oil. Any truth to that?

 

[Mikewood]

Well I am not an expert but I have let car and have seen tractor engines go 15k and never had anything close to this. It looks more like sabotage to me. Someone intentionally putting dirt, soil or some other foreign substance in the engine to damage it. I am not saying it was you guys but engine that can operate even moderately well don't do this to the oil.

 

[txinvestigator]

Thanks for the advice.

 

[okie556]

I'm old school!! I still change the oil and filter in both my 2006 Silverado Z-71 (35,000 actual miles) and 98 Buick LeSabre (140,000 miles) at 3,000 to 3,250 miles. Just did first tune-up on the old Buick at 135,000 miles and she still get 29 to 31 mpg highway and 22-24 city.

 

[zembonez]

15,000 miles! YIKES!

I do run Mobil1 10,000 miles in my company cars. Last one (Explorer) was turned in with 218,000 on the clock, running great and not using oil (trans was going). My current Taurus is on 10,000 mile change intervals using Ford filters.

I do the 7500 mile change on my personal vehicles using Mobil1 or Amsoil.

The German engines are known to sludge up... The 1.8T and 2.0T engines are lucky to live 120K.

 

[M. Sage]

I would run some barrymans b-12 in it and do an engine wash. that will get all that sludge out

We use a BG product, but what often happens is it kicks the sludge loose and plugs the pick up tube. We always pull an oil pan to make sure the pick up is clear before we finish the job.

You'd think Germans could design an auto a little better than that.

Years ago I heard rumors of Porshe and/or Lambo's (pick your own exotica) requiring engine removal just to change the oil. Any truth to that?

On a Porsche, no. Can't speak to Lambos or any other actual exotics. There are some jobs on Boxsters that are a complete PITA.

Germans suck at cars...

Well I am not an expert but I have let car and have seen tractor engines go 15k and never had anything close to this. It looks more like sabotage to me. Someone intentionally putting dirt, soil or some other foreign substance in the engine to damage it. I am not saying it was you guys but engine that can operate even moderately well don't do this to the oil.

Nope, definitely not dirt. This stuff is definitely engine sludge. Very thick, oily, almost like grease. What it really makes me think of is oil pudding. It's also all in the top end of the engine.

 

[Dcav]

Now that I am back working in the automotive world (after a 10 year hiatus) I cannot believe how badly people treat there vehicles.

 

[jeepinbanditrider]

It's just an appliance to most people. Turn key put in "D" and step on pedal. They don't give two shits about it until it stops working.


Sent from my iPhone

 

[ROGER4314]

I had two jobs where we tested lubricants and their role in keeping mechanical devices running. Maybe what I learned will be helpful.

The first job was at the big Vickers/Sperry Rand gear products division in Tulsa. We ran transmissions and gear boxes on a dyno to destruction. Temperature of the lubricant was the critical factor. A transmission under heavy, measured, load was run while temperature was maintained. The temp was raised higher and higher as the gearbox ran. Periodically, we would check wear on the gears and bearings. Day after day, the transmissions ran until we raised the temp another 10 degrees and the gears cratered. The gearbox would run perfectly until we hit that breakdown point of the oil then the box was destroyed! As little as 10 degrees made the difference in running well or complete destruction! Temperature of the lube was absolutely critical!

In the second job, I worked for McDonnell Douglas aircraft and maintained ground support equipment for military and commercial jet aircraft. Ground support equipment (GSE) has hydraulic systems built into the unit so the aircraft systems can be function tested while the bird is on the ground. Aircraft folks are FANATICS about about keeping GSE clean as hooking a dirty unit into a clean aircraft system trashes the aircraft system.

We took samples of the oil for lab analysis of viscosity, particle count and acid number. The particle count analysis was so strict that if you TOUCHED the open sample bottle neck with your finger, the sample would fail. If a sample failed, we re-sampled. If it failed again, the huge banks of filters were changed, system circulated then re-sampled. The filter banks had up to 35 6"x18" cartridge filters in each bank with up to 3 banks in each unit.

If the sample failed again, all oil was dumped, another filter change, flushing and a period of running to recirculate. Cleaning one of those GSE units was a HUGE expense but compared to trashing a $30 million aircraft, it was a bargain. At the time, Mil-H-5606 red oil for the military jets cost $8/gallon and the Skydrol and Hijet synthetic oil cost $36/gallon. We dumped hundreds of gallons of oil! God only knows what the filter banks cost to restore.

Summed up, my experience taught me:
The biggest factor in having oil do its job in keeping a machine running is temperature. If temperature is kept to acceptable limits, how much crap you put INTO the oil determines how long the oil can be safely run.

With the car shown above, I'd say water was getting into the oil either from the combustion process or a coolant leak. Someone suggested sabotage. It has happened before. Either way, that car is toast.

Flash

 

[The_Hunter]

I run the oil in my BMW 12-15k (depending on what the on board computer tells me) and I have never see anything like this.

 

[coachrick]

I run the oil in my BMW 12-15k (depending on what the on board computer tells me) and I have never see anything like this.

Much discussion on the Volvo boards re: Euro marques recommending 15K miles between changes of FULL SYNTHETIC oil. Volvo uses a syn-blend here in the States and recommends 7500 miles for oil change intervals. It's quite interesting when the dino-guys and the syn-guys go at it . Back in the old days, I was a 3000 mile oil change nut...even when I didn't have the money in my pocket. I've never had an oil-related engine failure--going as far back as my 1960 Stude Lark VIII. I stick with the factory recommendations of 7500 miles now...I'm not ready for 15K miles! Rancher B-I-L has over 350K miles on his F ?350? dually. I reckon diesels have different requirements, but 350K miles of dusty hot Texas workin' sounds pretty good to me!