To refinish or not - antique military rifles

[Sasquatch]

Inherited a few old guns this year from my father in law's passing - have posted some here. Two of them have me torn on what to do - my Smith-Corona 03-A3 and my Arisaka w/ the intact markings. Both guns were very, very neglected before I got them. I've been trying to clean them up - there was a lot of surface rust on them, and still is honestly. Been doing treatments with fine steel wool and nylon scour pads with oil but the rust is pretty bad. I've been debating on refinishing them, going back and forth. They're historical pieces that will never be made again, so part of me says refinish them so they're more likely to last three more generations, but part says "no, leave them as is because restoring them would be destroying their history"

Part of the issue is their value - as wonderful as they are, I may want to move them (or at least the Arisaka) along to collectors who will appreciate them more as pieces to look at and touch occasionally rather than shooters. There's a little defect in my brain that doesn't like taking up space in the safe with guns that I can't shoot. The 03A3 I think would still be a shooter no problem - its got the least amount of rust. The Arisaka - lots of spotty rust issues on the outside of the action and dust cover plate. I've thought about having a gunsmith redo the blue on them - but I know it'd never be the same. Seems no way to recreate the same deep look a lot of the old guns had.

What would ya'll do if you had them? Refinish? Leave as is?

 

[MikePotts]

I'd go with 'No' - if you're planning to move them on. Let someone else make that decision for themselves.

 

[Bozz10mm]

If you are going to keep them, refinish them. I don't see how heavy rust can add to the collector value anyway if you were to sell them later on.

 

[baboon]

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I had Mike build me a O3A3 SBR & reparkerize it.

 

[HKSig]

Post some pictures of them. If you're planning to sell, I'd probably leave them as is.

 

[candcallen]

Have them inspected by a reasonably knowledgeable person and if they are valuable dont phuck with them and move them.

Personally I would sell the Jap rifle and use the money to make a nice shooter out of the 03 unless its some rare variation. Re park, re barrel if needed and enjoy it.

Generally collectors like honest wear in their guns and messing with them will always hurt the collector value.

Remember, sporterizing a milsurp is considerd an unpardonable sin by many.

 

[ROGER4314]

Why worry about refinishing them? They belong to YOU and it's your decision, alone. From the condition you described, saving them as relics for posterity went out the window long ago.

For me, I'd restore them to serviceable condition. Machines require maintenance. Give them what they need.

Had a few rifles like that. Glass bead blasting then a re-blue would help a lot. Then they'd have utility value.

Flash

 

[rl96ss]

I wouldn't mess with either of them. The Arisaka will be very expensive to shoot, much better to sell it as is.

 

[Moonpie]

Do not refinish them.
Clean them up the best you can without sanding on anything.
Leave them alone. You'll wreck the value with a refinish.

 

[Axxe55]

I wouldn't refinish them either. I'd do a deep cleaning that only removed dirt and oils from the stock. Go to a good hardware store and find some products made for antique furniture. They will clean and restore the wood as needed. Surface rust on the metal parts? Find some Kano Kroil and some heavy burlap cloth. That and lots of elbow grease will remove the rust and not disturb the finish on the metal parts.

IF you did plan on selling, the closer to original condition the better for pricing. Refinishing would seem to make them more attractive and raise the price, but for many collectors, it actually does the opposite.

 

[Lonesome Dove]

Refinishing milsurps is like refinishing 100 year old rail road spikes. Leave them as they should be.

 

[Txhillbilly]

I don't have a fondness for any old military rifles, most are heavy as hell and aren't accurate to my definition of accuracy.
Very few are worth more than what it would cost to refinish them, so you would just be throwing money away doing so.

 

[TipBledsoe]

I'm not surprised you're getting the wide variety of answers. Are you keeping a tally of refinish vs rust? Lol
I respect your concern to preserve history but it sounds to me like the condition of your specimens aren't of much historical/collector value so if you might as well do with them however you please.

 

[baboon]

Both guns were very, very neglected before I got them. I've been trying to clean them up - there was a lot of surface rust on them, and still is honestly. Been doing treatments with fine steel wool and nylon scour pads with oil but the rust is pretty bad. I've been debating on refinishing them, going back and forth.

What would ya'll do if you had them? Refinish? Leave as is?

There is a good chance that your treatments have already ruined any collector value what their neglected condition has not. Refinishing the O3A3 really depends on if it is a great shooter. I had one in my late teens that was a great shooter, and all correct. Not seeing the treated areas or the bore makes that a hard call.

What you want to do is really up to what you want to achieve. If you just want a good looking rifle refinishing will do it. If you want a great looking shooter more might be required.

If your 03A3 stock has the cartouches it could be worth more the the rifle itself! The 03A3 that I started with was a Bubba'd messed up. The stock on my rebuild was a trade & I got $100.00 in the trade. I have the take off barrel from my SBR build. It might be in better shape then what you have. IIRC when mine was rebarreled the smith had to make the barrel wrench. That's not to say wrenches are not available, but may add to the cost if you have you gun worked on.

 

[Glenn B]

...Both guns were very, very neglected before I got them. I've been trying to clean them up - there was a lot of surface rust on them, and still is honestly. Been doing treatments with fine steel wool and nylon scour pads with oil but the rust is pretty bad. I've been debating on refinishing them, going back and forth. They're historical pieces that will never be made again, so part of me says refinish them so they're more likely to last three more generations, but part says "no, leave them as is because restoring them would be destroying their history"...

...Part of the issue is their value...

All good intentions aside, I think it is utterly amazing that folks have been telling you what to do with the Arisaka (like refinish or sell it) and they do not have a clue as to the model or its worth whether badly rusted or not. I am pretty sure one or two folks above said to have them checked out by a competent (& might I add honest) person and then decide. Sounds like the best idea before possibly ruining it with your own rust removal methods or by having someone refinish it. Same for the other one as to what to do first.

Bear in mind that some Arisakas have a blue book value of up to $3,000.00 in 60% condition (lowest condition level in the Blue Book)! Also bear in mind the original dust covers are pretty much hard to come by and add value as do markings such as the mum that have not been ground out. Yours, if actually in as terrible a condition as you make it sound (and I have seen and heard people descibe a gun as ruined when if fact it was in fair condition), may still be worth several hundred dollars (if not more) just as it is right now. So you might not want to screw with it any further until you determine the model and the value.

 

[Axxe55]

Excellent point on the Arisaka. Very few rifles have the Mum intact, so one surviving and not being ground off, can increase the value quite a bit for collectors.

 

[Sasquatch]

For the 03A3 - thats one I think I'll keep. I happen to like old military bolt guns - they're the bolt guns I actually dig vs hunting rifles. I can shoot that gun - I've got plenty of generic '06 ammo.

The Arisaka - ammo is next to impossible to find locally, and even internet ammo is stupid expensive.

I've posted these on here before I think but I'll repost some photos again for those interested in what the gun looks like:

Here's some of the Smith-Corona

I am / have been leaning more toward the "leave them be" side, and there's more guys here saying the same thing. They aren't one of a kind pieces, but they're also pretty rare, as far as the grand scheme of the gun world goes, and they have a history to them. The sparse history I know of - my wife's maternal grandfather was in the Army and served in WW2 in the Pacific theater (we found some pictures of him form that time, with some pretty Polynesian girls around him while going thru photos - along with a handful of other pix from his time over seas) - he was not infantry, he was an engineer. The 03-A3 was primarily issued to second-line troops, as they were handing out M1's to most infantry soldiers.

My mother in law remembered him having the gun when she was a kid (or she thinks so, anyway) - there's a strong likelihood that this was his issued rifle, and it made its way home with him instead of being turned in like it should've been.

Don't know how he wound up with the Arisaka, as he wasn't infantry - might've horse traded another troop for it? Maybe he bought it after the war - no one knows for sure. What I do know, this gun didn't get defaced.

My in-laws inherited the rifles when my wife's grandpa died in 1997. Most of his stuff went into a storage locker. We cleaned that storage locker out with my mother in law while we were preparing to move here to Texas. These guns, plus an old 16 gauge bolt action shotgun were propped up in the corner of the storage locker gathering dust and rust.

 

[Sasquatch]

The Arisaka looks to have had a rough life - maybe it saw quite a bit of fighting, or maybe it was just never cased and got the shit knocked out of it bouncing around behind a truck seat, getting dinged up in a closet - I dunno. I don't think my wife's grand dad did much hunting with it - and thankfully he didn't sporterize either of these guns.

I am pretty sure the Arisaka is a type 99, but the rear sight throws me - I believe the 99 is supposed to have the fold-out wings for anti-aircraft windage? This gun doesn't have the weird bipod either, but from my research that was quite often removed in the field because it sucked. The dust covers were also usually ditched in the field, because they're a pain in the ass to reinstall when you remove the bolt, so I'm glad this one has it. Also - it has the top barrel shroud extended out vs having the exposed barrel of the Type 38.

They are neat old guns - and they have history.

 

[Glenn B]

I amo no connoisseur of Arisaka weapons but I have seen much lousier Arisakas sell for a few hundred bucks at gun auctions. The wood is heavily dinged but the metal does not look too bad; however, it does look as if someone scraped off some of the finish around the Japanese characters under the mum since there is white metal exposed.

 

[Maverick44]

I have yet to see an Arisaka that didn't look like it was drug through a swamp and put away wet. They were most certainly used, and used hard. There was a reason why Japan was cranking out "last ditch" rifles and arming civilians with bamboo spears. They really didn't have the guns to spare. They did put away a few meant to be used during the invasion of Japanese mainland that never happened. The fact that it has a mum tells me that it was most likely a captured rifle, not a post war surrendered rifle.

It is not uncommon for them the be missing the aircraft sight wings, bipod, cleaning rod, and the dust cover. Mine has none of that. Yours is most definitely a Type 99. The nose cap is very distinctive whereas the Type 38 doesn't have the prong coming out of the back for a screw.

How does the bore look? Mine like yours looks very rough, but the bore was pristine due to it being chrome lined.

I would leave them as be, or restore (NOT refinish) them. Mark Novak would be a good person to look into to learn the difference