What have you done to your vehicle lately?
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Tech heavy ramblings for a saturday afternoon. If you dont like cars this probably ain't for you. Please disregard all spelling and punctuation errors.
Update on my mercedes wagon. First off, it ended up being a 2009. Bonus as it is a year newer but that doesn't actually change much.
I took it out of town for work for a week. I headed up to DFW. I ran 2 and a half tanks of fuel through it. Averaged 12.1 mpg. Worse than my Tahoe. I took a look into it yesterday after work. I had noticed it was running rough at idle and lacked power. Not to mention burning out your eyes due to running rich. Multiple faults in the engine. Originally with the leaking manifold it was misfiring on 1, 2, 3.
Quick theory lesson... The engine is a N/A 3.2L V6. Software by Bosch. It uses a combination of mas air flow, map sensor and O2 sensors to derive mixture information. Normally with everything running properly it will cross reference air in and manifold pressure (vacuum). It puts in fuel based on the software map and confirms with front O2 sensors. This car has wide band sensors in the front so we are looking for about 1 volt. The rear sensors are narrow band and target about 450mv to confirm cats working. This process is the lambda value that the software uses to keep the mixture in the target range.
There is also a long term adaptation for idle and part load. This would be the self adaptation for mixture adaptation. The target would be plus or minus 4.50 the idea is that as components wear the software has a baseline to adjust and track. When the limit is exceeded the check engine light comes on.
When I got the car is had a misfire steady on cylinders 1, 2, 3 (passenger side, bank 1) there was a fault code for the heater of the front O2 sensor bank 1. 4 faults for part load and idle adaptations at limit. After checking the adaptation data it confirmed the 4.50 limit was exceeded to a fixed +6.00. This is evident by burning your eyes out due to running rich. Quick diagnosis has the engine air cleaner assembly removed to access the top of the engine. Pull up front O2 sensor voltage and gingerly spray the manifold and hoses with brake clean. I say gingerly as if you get any into the mas air flow sensor it will bork your readings. Lone behold, when I hit the front of the engine the O2 voltage drops and the engine stumbles even worse.
...What happened and what does it mean...
With the intake leaking on the front it screws up the manifold pressure. It also allows unmetered air in after the mas air sensor. The engine software is trying to trim the fuel based on the air it thinks is entering. With a leak it goes into a loop of running lean due to unmetered air. It starts to trim up the fuel delivery but starts to run too rich based on how much it should be injecting.
When you hit the leak with brake clean it manifests immediately in the O2 sensor voltage. It can also cause a misfire depending on where the leak is. If it were a gasket issue on a particular cylinder or more of a "global" leak on the manifold like I had you can narrow it down to a specific cause.
My fix was to remove the manifold seal it up by removing the broken linkage and using sealant on all the bushing and linkage holes. That was actually a success but I missed connecting a vacuum line for the secondary air injection valves. This again caused a vacuum leak and me second guessing my fix.
Fast forward to today after my low mpg road trip. I fixed the loose hose but the engine was still running rough. It was not misfiring, buy certainly not running right. I pulled all 6 plugs. The 3 plugs on bank 1 were black and plugged with soot and unburned fuel. I stabbed in a new set of plugs, cleared all the codes and did a full reset of all mixture and sensor adaptation data. This included relearning the throttle and sensor rotor (crankshaft ring gear / crank sensor, used for cylinder and misfire recognition). Alas it was running smooth and not killing the trees. I topped it off with a bottle of techron fuel system tretment.
On my shakedown drive home it ws averaging 18.5 to 18.9mpg city driving. Hopefully that is fixed for now. It will probably still need the bank 1 upstream O2 sensor if it doesn't come back online properly.
I have added 2 pics. Same engine in different cars. This is identified by the change in engine air cleaner top assemblies. The one missing the valves is in the E class and is the focus of this muse. The other one is in my R class and has the valves in place. These valve assemblies adjust the long /short runners and the tumble flaps inside the manifold. The air leak starts when the linkage wears out. The manifold is a cast magnesium composite. The linkage is connected to the plastic runner's inside via a bronze or brass bushing. Not sure exactly. As the linkage wears out it side loads the runners and wears out the bushing. The part in the front with the electrical connector is the air injection pump (smog pump to some). You can see the one hard plastic line in the picture with the valves. It goes to one of the secondary air injection valves. That is the same type of line I left loose for a different part of the same system.
The R class has 221,000 miles and the tumble flap and valve system works perfectly. The E class has 83,000 and it was completly.worn out.
If you made it this far, that's it for now. Thanks. When I have to tear into it again I'll put up another post and try and actually get some better pictures. This particular engine along with it's V8 counterpart are a speciality of mine. Literally one that could be handed to me in a bucket of parts and go together with 100% certainty. They have gotten way more complex than this both hardware and software wise
AdamT
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Update on my mercedes wagon. First off, it ended up being a 2009. Bonus as it is a year newer but that doesn't actually change much.
I took it out of town for work for a week. I headed up to DFW. I ran 2 and a half tanks of fuel through it. Averaged 12.1 mpg. Worse than my Tahoe. I took a look into it yesterday after work. I had noticed it was running rough at idle and lacked power. Not to mention burning out your eyes due to running rich. Multiple faults in the engine. Originally with the leaking manifold it was misfiring on 1, 2, 3.
Quick theory lesson... The engine is a N/A 3.2L V6. Software by Bosch. It uses a combination of mas air flow, map sensor and O2 sensors to derive mixture information. Normally with everything running properly it will cross reference air in and manifold pressure (vacuum). It puts in fuel based on the software map and confirms with front O2 sensors. This car has wide band sensors in the front so we are looking for about 1 volt. The rear sensors are narrow band and target about 450mv to confirm cats working. This process is the lambda value that the software uses to keep the mixture in the target range.
There is also a long term adaptation for idle and part load. This would be the self adaptation for mixture adaptation. The target would be plus or minus 4.50 the idea is that as components wear the software has a baseline to adjust and track. When the limit is exceeded the check engine light comes on.
When I got the car is had a misfire steady on cylinders 1, 2, 3 (passenger side, bank 1) there was a fault code for the heater of the front O2 sensor bank 1. 4 faults for part load and idle adaptations at limit. After checking the adaptation data it confirmed the 4.50 limit was exceeded to a fixed +6.00. This is evident by burning your eyes out due to running rich. Quick diagnosis has the engine air cleaner assembly removed to access the top of the engine. Pull up front O2 sensor voltage and gingerly spray the manifold and hoses with brake clean. I say gingerly as if you get any into the mas air flow sensor it will bork your readings. Lone behold, when I hit the front of the engine the O2 voltage drops and the engine stumbles even worse.
...What happened and what does it mean...
With the intake leaking on the front it screws up the manifold pressure. It also allows unmetered air in after the mas air sensor. The engine software is trying to trim the fuel based on the air it thinks is entering. With a leak it goes into a loop of running lean due to unmetered air. It starts to trim up the fuel delivery but starts to run too rich based on how much it should be injecting.
When you hit the leak with brake clean it manifests immediately in the O2 sensor voltage. It can also cause a misfire depending on where the leak is. If it were a gasket issue on a particular cylinder or more of a "global" leak on the manifold like I had you can narrow it down to a specific cause.
My fix was to remove the manifold seal it up by removing the broken linkage and using sealant on all the bushing and linkage holes. That was actually a success but I missed connecting a vacuum line for the secondary air injection valves. This again caused a vacuum leak and me second guessing my fix.
Fast forward to today after my low mpg road trip. I fixed the loose hose but the engine was still running rough. It was not misfiring, buy certainly not running right. I pulled all 6 plugs. The 3 plugs on bank 1 were black and plugged with soot and unburned fuel. I stabbed in a new set of plugs, cleared all the codes and did a full reset of all mixture and sensor adaptation data. This included relearning the throttle and sensor rotor (crankshaft ring gear / crank sensor, used for cylinder and misfire recognition). Alas it was running smooth and not killing the trees. I topped it off with a bottle of techron fuel system tretment.
On my shakedown drive home it ws averaging 18.5 to 18.9mpg city driving. Hopefully that is fixed for now. It will probably still need the bank 1 upstream O2 sensor if it doesn't come back online properly.
I have added 2 pics. Same engine in different cars. This is identified by the change in engine air cleaner top assemblies. The one missing the valves is in the E class and is the focus of this muse. The other one is in my R class and has the valves in place. These valve assemblies adjust the long /short runners and the tumble flaps inside the manifold. The air leak starts when the linkage wears out. The manifold is a cast magnesium composite. The linkage is connected to the plastic runner's inside via a bronze or brass bushing. Not sure exactly. As the linkage wears out it side loads the runners and wears out the bushing. The part in the front with the electrical connector is the air injection pump (smog pump to some). You can see the one hard plastic line in the picture with the valves. It goes to one of the secondary air injection valves. That is the same type of line I left loose for a different part of the same system.
The R class has 221,000 miles and the tumble flap and valve system works perfectly. The E class has 83,000 and it was completly.worn out.
If you made it this far, that's it for now. Thanks. When I have to tear into it again I'll put up another post and try and actually get some better pictures. This particular engine along with it's V8 counterpart are a speciality of mine. Literally one that could be handed to me in a bucket of parts and go together with 100% certainty. They have gotten way more complex than this both hardware and software wise
AdamT
Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
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Wagons are the best 
Tyler of Hoovies Garage (YouTube) got a cheap E63 Wagon and documented his issues/fixes in a series of vids. Some of the issues are similar to what you found, obviously different engines.
Y’all have a lot of patience working on older German cars
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Tyler of Hoovies Garage (YouTube) got a cheap E63 Wagon and documented his issues/fixes in a series of vids. Some of the issues are similar to what you found, obviously different engines.
Y’all have a lot of patience working on older German cars
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That's the same wagon I have..... less the looks, suspension, seats, brakes, twice the power.Wagons are the best
Tyler of Hoovies Garage (YouTube) got a cheap E63 Wagon and documented his issues/fixes in a series of vids. Some of the issues are similar to what you found, obviously different engines.
Y’all have a lot of patience working on older German cars
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The AMG wagons have the lowest production numbers. I would grab one if I could afford it.
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Since you mentioned the R-Class...did you read about the guy who bought a used R63 AMG, engine fails, and is quoted $57k at the dealer to replace it?
He fixed it himself, eventually...
Lots of drama LOL
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cu...ebuilding-his-engine-to-avoid-a-57000-repair/
https://www.thedrive.com/sheetmetal...tes-what-wouldve-been-57000-in-engine-repairs
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pronstar,
And you wonder WHY the old/simple/cheap to fix/repair S-Class SEL & SEC MB & the 3.0 straight six coupes are my favorites??
I'd have a stroke if I got a repair bill for 57,000.ooUSD.
yours, satx
And you wonder WHY the old/simple/cheap to fix/repair S-Class SEL & SEC MB & the 3.0 straight six coupes are my favorites??
I'd have a stroke if I got a repair bill for 57,000.ooUSD.
yours, satx
I have rebuilt a handfull of those 6.3 motors from top end failure. Being stuck in the dealer life I cant dictate cost. Parts has there own markup over list and labor is set by the man. The only way I can help is to work for free in a sense. In that particular case it is lazy quoting. If the block is not damaged there is no need to quote a complete engine. Labot to fully disassemble and reassemble is probably only like 30 or 35 hours including removal.
As to the R63, there were only like 40 of them. I drove one in like 2010 or so and have seen 1 in the wild. Very rare wagon.
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It's not the battery. Could be a bad cable somewhere, and I'll start doing drop voltage tests to isolate that. I also plan on testing the resting current draw. I have an icky feeling that a module somewhere is shorted out and putting a load on the system.
I looked at my disgusting truck knowing it needs a bath. I then looked at the thermometer knowing it ain't going to happen today.
To say the last job was a mess would be a big understatement. Didn't get stuck though even with the trailer on.
This is after driving home all day in the rain.
To say the last job was a mess would be a big understatement. Didn't get stuck though even with the trailer on.
This is after driving home all day in the rain.
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I just walked two of my trainees through the quiescent current draw diagnosis. It was a picture perfect job. Specific vehicle was 2008 Mercedes ML350. We had replaced the battery a month ago. Came back dead. Had a draw of 0.145A. The target would be 0.05A or less.
We started at the battery to confirm the draw with a meter in series. From there, we used an amp clamp to check the different legs to the front and rear fuse boxes and SAM modules. (In the mercedes world; "signal acquisition module." The brain that handles internal relays, lights, pumps, etc. One for the front half, one for the rear) Found the draw isolated to the rear SAM, plug F. Turns out the rear tailgate latch motor was internally defective. Unplugged the latch and the draw went down to 0.04A. It took about an hour and a half. With the 2 kids involved it slows the process. I have to actually explain all the interpretation of the wire diagrams and detail the measuring and isolation plan. Hopefully next time they will need less help...
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Why not start off with the amp clamp? No chance of blowing up a meter that way; not that I would know anything about that
Took care of it today with the nicer weather. Ran a vacuum through it too.
Figured if Moonpie can become a Glock fanboi we can all change for the better.
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Was gonna wash my car, looked at the forecast and said eff it. But inspection will soon be due and I just realized one of the license plate lights is out so I replaced them both with little LED 194s. Would probably look better if the lens covers weren't near enough opaque by now. Oh well.
Our 1984 C4 Corvette left today with a new owner......after 12 years it was time to say goodbye.........
Will probably never sell our 1979 Porsche 928 though.........Been driving it 19 years and still runs strong.............
Will probably never sell our 1979 Porsche 928 though.........Been driving it 19 years and still runs strong.............
Change the oil in the Expedition...7 quarts Mobil 1 5W-20 and new filter .....Check.........
Pull all 8 plugs and change with new...........nope....wrong plugs from the local auto parts store.....crap!
Put all 8 plugs back in...will return plugs tomorrow.......good guys at the parts store so I won't bust their balls....... too much.......
Pull all 8 plugs and change with new...........nope....wrong plugs from the local auto parts store.....crap!
Put all 8 plugs back in...will return plugs tomorrow.......good guys at the parts store so I won't bust their balls....... too much.......
