Why do sellers of guns have to fax a copy of their drivers license to transfer a gun?

[gringogigante]

I sold a few guns on gun broker and was told by each of the purchaser's FFLs that I have to fax them a copy of my freakin drivers license for them to be allowed by the ATF to "complete the transfer"!!!

When the hell did this happen? Also, what could they want with my drivers license? I was told that the receiving FFL didn't have to do a background check or anything on me, and he just hands over the rifle once he sees my DL copy. What good is that?

More freakin' government BS.... Is this a new law?

 

[Bithabus]

Re: Why do sellers of guns have to fax a copy of their drivers license to transfer a

Since you don't have an FFL the dealer needs to copy your info into his book.

 

[Angered_Kabar]

Re: Why do sellers of guns have to fax a copy of their drivers license to transfer a

Since you don't have an FFL the dealer needs to copy your info into his book.

This. I don't think this policy is new either.

 

[majormadmax]

Re: Why do sellers of guns have to fax a copy of their drivers license to transfer a

...

 

[wakal]

Re: Why do sellers of guns have to fax a copy of their drivers license to transfer a

Your name and address are entered in the "received from" block in the FFL holder's bound book. Some people take that to extremes. And some people are idiots. Just because a person has an FFL doesn't mean that the person necessarily has any actual idea what the relevant portion of the law and appropriate regulations say and/or mean.

I've noticed that a lot of FFL act like retards, even when the correct section is pointed out, read to them verbatim, and otherwise shoved in their faces. Of course, I once had a senior department head at the ATF tell me to my face that a shoelace was a "machine gun," so...


Alex

 

[Angered_Kabar]

Re: Why do sellers of guns have to fax a copy of their drivers license to transfer a

Your name and address are entered in the "received from" block in the FFL holder's bound book. Some people take that to extremes. And some people are idiots. Just because a person has an FFL doesn't mean that the person necessarily has any actual idea what the relevant portion of the law and appropriate regulations say and/or mean.

I've noticed that a lot of FFL act like retards, even when the correct section is pointed out, read to them verbatim, and otherwise shoved in their faces. Of course, I once had a senior department head at the ATF tell me to my face that a shoelace was a "machine gun," so...


Alex

An FFL messes up even a tiny little bit on the paperwork and he can get his license pulled like *that*. The ATF isn't very consistent when it comes to interpreting laws and policy, so it's probably better to err on the side of caution and have more information than they determine you need.

Here's an example you brought up about inconsistencies in policy.

The ATF did consider shoelaces machineguns at some point. Now they are still machineguns but only if they care enough about you to bust your ass for constructive intent.

 

[RetArmySgt]

Re: Why do sellers of guns have to fax a copy of their drivers license to transfer a

Shoelaces? there must be something im missing here.

 

[Angered_Kabar]

Re: Why do sellers of guns have to fax a copy of their drivers license to transfer a

Shoelaces? there must be something im missing here.

Tie them up a special way while it's on firearms with certain design aspects and it pulls the trigger when the bolt closes.

 

[wakal]

Re: Why do sellers of guns have to fax a copy of their drivers license to transfer a

Yep. Google "Sterling Nixon" and "shoelace" for some fun reading. And I mean "fun" in the fourth-tone sense, for those who speak the appropriate language. I ran into him at SHOT and asked him about...shoelaces...and got an earful. Entertaining, to be sure...he was quite amusing while talking about sending a man to jail over string.

Some of the wit and wisdom of our pal Sterling is saved here: http://i.imgur.com/FCbDv.jpg

The ATF can charge you with anything, at any time. They can interpret things one way in one case, and the opposite in another case, and fight both at the same time. I can't hardly believe two impossible things before breakfast, much less mutually exclusive points of view

(stolen from der Goreacle's Interwebs because it cracked me up):

"Hate to tell you this, but if your shoelaces are 14 inches long...you may need to pay a $200 transfer tax apiece for them, provided that they were registered prior to May 19, 1986. If they were made AFTER May 19, 1986, only Governmental agencies can technically own shoelaces, at least according to ATF."

Alex

 

[Bithabus]

Re: Why do sellers of guns have to fax a copy of their drivers license to transfer a

Yep. Google "Sterling Nixon" and "shoelace" for some fun reading. And I mean "fun" in the fourth-tone sense, for those who speak the appropriate language. I ran into him at SHOT and asked him about...shoelaces...and got an earful. Entertaining, to be sure...he was quite amusing while talking about sending a man to jail over string.

Some of the wit and wisdom of our pal Sterling is saved here: http://i.imgur.com/FCbDv.jpg

The ATF can charge you with anything, at any time. They can interpret things one way in one case, and the opposite in another case, and fight both at the same time. I can't hardly believe two impossible things before breakfast, much less mutually exclusive points of view

(stolen from der Goreacle's Interwebs because it cracked me up):



Alex

That is awesome. Though, an easy response would have been that the shoelace was not intended "solely and exclusively" to convert the weapon to FA, because it was also used to secure his shoe

 

[wakal]

Re: Why do sellers of guns have to fax a copy of their drivers license to transfer a

I made that point to Sterling...he said it had "knots and loops" and so was "unusable" for any other reason.

Such as tying notes to pigeon's legs, flood prevention, killing mice, or any of the other five million and one uses for string...knots or not...



Alex

 

[TheDan]

Re: Why do sellers of guns have to fax a copy of their drivers license to transfer a

Because they need to enter your name in their database so that when they confiscate everyone's guns and you resist they'll know who needs the tiny bomb that they implant into everyone's skull detonated. Why else?

 

[Acera]

Re: Why do sellers of guns have to fax a copy of their drivers license to transfer a

Regarding the shoelace thing. It would not be such a big deal on the internet if he had used a piece of metal, cable, plastic, etc and made a traditional mechanism like a lightening link, DIS, or something else. Because the criminal was clever, and used a household item to construct the item it gets ridicule.

The fact remains he manufactured an item that converted his Mini-14 into a operational machine gun. If you leave out the material virtually no one has an issue seeing that he committed a crime, but use the word shoelace and it changes the entire conversation. Plus, not every shoelace with knots, and a pair of steel rings on it are machine guns, just that one. If anyone is stupid to get caught with one just like it, then that may be considered a machine gun especially if they happen to be holding a firearm that it could be used in that manner on. The item provided a mechanical linkage that automatically actuated the trigger, it was not a bump fire type of action.

 

[majormadmax]

Re: Why do sellers of guns have to fax a copy of their drivers license to transfer a

Better outlaw rubber bands as well...

 

[Angered_Kabar]

Re: Why do sellers of guns have to fax a copy of their drivers license to transfer a

Better outlaw rubber bands as well...

I think they have.

 

[Acera]

Re: Why do sellers of guns have to fax a copy of their drivers license to transfer a

That is nothing more than making a bump fire device. The AFT does not like the spring loaded stock thing, when used as a bump fire enabler, but rubber bands like that are ok.

Two totally different concepts. In bump firing every round fired results from the trigger being pulled and released. On the string thing, one pull would dump the entire magazine.

 

[hkusp1]

Re: Why do sellers of guns have to fax a copy of their drivers license to transfer a

Say a kid not to long ago that rigged a semi auto pistol with rubber bands and string that thing was dangerous touch the trigger ounce and it wouldn't stop till it was empty. I left after the second mag dump because he was just spraying bullets every where and really couldn't control it.