Why does the USPS need ammunition?

[HillRider]

every federal agency has an OIG - office of inspector general.......NOT a swat unit...deer lord

1811 is the federal career series that fill these Agent positions

they investigate fraud - they investigate alleged violations of various laws that most of you never even think about

they serve federal search warrants.......because they are federal law enforcement agents - they carry guns - just like every "police type" should

do some research on the guys that carry guns at NOAA

the US Postal Inspectors are heavily involved in the fight against child porn - as well as a bunch of other cases - they do A LOT of good police work

i could go on and on - but i think it would be pointless, because no matter what the facts are - there is always that crowd that simply has a need to hate everything the government does - to think that everything they do is nefarious, etc etc

The likelihood of abuse is there, whether you want to see it or not.


"The price of liberty is eternal vigilance."

-Thomas Jefferson

 

[just jk]

of course its there

abuse, fraud, wrong doing - exists in every walk of life - both in the private sector and in the federal government

i'm not sure what that has to do with whether a person in a law enforcement position needs a gun

i could walk you thru a few scenarios re: the gun carrying TSA types

but frankly i just dont care - if you can't find a way to do some research on who TSA is beyond the poor saps that screen your luggage at the airport - there's really no point in continuing the discussion

 

[HillRider]

every federal agency that has a law enforcement mission

yes

i think you're basing this "they dont need guns" opinion on a faulty set of facts

rage on dude........i mean, i'm just a mental midget - what the hell do i know

The Feds can invent some law enforcement mission for some invented threat any time they want. That is the problem.

 

[just jk]

The Feds can invent some law enforcement mission for some invented threat any time they want. That is the problem.

you realize that cabinet level agencies dont actually create laws

congress does that

then people start violating the law - and well, then you need people to enforce it

it's a rather simple concept actually

 

[just jk]

i get it - you're one of those that has a total disdain for government

probably better if we just agree to disagree - we come from two different walks of life and have little in common

 

[HillRider]

And this isn't really even about "needing guns" either. I believe all individuals whether private or public have the right to carry firearms. What is the limit to Federal agents and units with LE capacity? As a citizen, you could be raided or arrested by a myriad of different groups, from the EPA over bullshit environmental infractions to the FDA over how you make or grow food products.

And the whole time we are told to respect these authorities, while they could potentially be holding guns to our heads, without knowing who the **** they are or what we did or whether they are friend or foe.

This is crazy.

 

[HillRider]

i get it - you're one of those that has a total disdain for government

probably better if we just agree to disagree - we come from two different walks of life and have little in common

Sure. Go worship the government some more and I'll go on hating it.

 

[Texasjack]

I have to side with the "too many gov't agencies have guns" group.

We don't need enforcement officers in every branch of the government. We don't do that in local government! If the tax department has to arrest someone, they call the police department. It's just bureaucracy piling on more layers and functions to build their empires. And the huge quantities of guns and ammo being purchased just shows how bloated the federal government has become.

 

[benenglish]

every federal agency has an OIG - office of inspector general....

1811 is the federal career series that fill these Agent positions

they investigate fraud - they investigate alleged violations of various laws that most of you never even think about...

Several short points.

1. All OIG 1811s (that I know of) are Special Agents, not Agents. The ones I've dealt with (especially the ones who have investigated me) tend to get touchy about that. If there are any 1811s who don't get that "Special" in their job title, I'd appreciate a pointer to some info on them.
2. OIG Special Agents also investigate internal corruption and wrongdoing. People who don't like bureaucracies running amok should love OIG Special Agents because they're the folks who slap down bureaucrats who do bad things.
3. There are Agents and Officers in other series than 1811, but it's only the 1811s who carry badges and guns.
4. The fun work, to me, is done by all the GS numbers from 1801 through 1810. There's some grunt work in there but that's also where you find the General Investigators, Special Officers, and other truly rare, weird and fun jobs

 

[HillRider]

you realize that cabinet level agencies dont actually create laws

congress does that

then people start violating the law - and well, then you need people to enforce it

it's a rather simple concept actually

Do you realize that enforcement of Federal laws includes the President and his administration's interpretation of the law and regulations? That this pretty much goes unchecked by Congress or the Supreme Court?

With all these Federal departments and agencies, this is simply too much power residing in one man.

Look at how the interpretation of the Clean Air Act based on junk science has allowed the president to shut down the coal industry.

Look at immigration.

Look at the ATF, Fast and Furious.

IRS and the Tea Party

I could go on. It's also the selective enforcement of laws that is the problem. Dinesh D'Souza

 

[HillRider]

see, i never called you a name

but you have to resort to a personal attack to further your argument (i.e. mental midget)........that says so much more about you than it does me

i'm a federal employee - i have many many friends who are federal law enforcement agents at various federal agencies

i know what they do - i've walked in their shoes

it's fine to question your goverment - in fact i encourage it - but INFORM YOURSELF......put down the paranoia for just a few moments

That says it all.

 

[benenglish]

I have to side with the "too many gov't agencies have guns" group.

Generally, I agree with you. However, we have to make some allowances for specialization.

...We don't do that in local government! If the tax department has to arrest someone, they call the police department...

I'm not sure why a local tax department might need to arrest someone but the arresting officer needs to be able to go to a court and testify that they knew why they were arresting someone, right? They can't give sworn testimony that they arrested someone just because Joe in another department asked for the arrest.

Feds tend to deal with *very* complex, arcane stuff. When someone is being arrested because they labeled the fluid in a drilling pipeline incorrectly on purpose, thus committing massive tax fraud, there's no way that anyone other than Special Agents with very particular training could ever understand why the arrest was made. So, the weirder the laws, the more weird little departments wind up with at least a few gun-toting folks on the payroll.

Hell, the Railroad Retirement folks actually have a few people toting guns on the payroll. Talk about weird...

The way to have less of this stuff is for Congress to repeal and simplify laws. They need to do so on a pretty pervasive, high-volume basis if the great majority of the body of the law is to become understandable by ordinary people again. I don't see that happening.

...It's just bureaucracy piling on more layers and functions to build their empires. And the huge quantities of guns and ammo being purchased just shows how bloated the federal government has become.

Agreed, mostly. I don't think this is always the case but it's true often enough that it's a problem that needs to be addressed as I said in my previous paragraph.

I'm just not hopeful that any incremental progress can or will ever be made. Just my opinion, but the only way real progress can be made is that someday, someone is going to have to flip over the game board, fight out the problems, and then re-start the game from zero with new rules.

 

[just jk]

I have to side with the "too many gov't agencies have guns" group.

We don't need enforcement officers in every branch of the government. We don't do that in local government! If the tax department has to arrest someone, they call the police department. It's just bureaucracy piling on more layers and functions to build their empires. And the huge quantities of guns and ammo being purchased just shows how bloated the federal government has become.

it's about jurisdiction

local agencies dont have jurisdiction in "exclusive federal jurisdiction" matters

 

[just jk]

Several short points.

1. All OIG 1811s (that I know of) are Special Agents, not Agents. The ones I've dealt with (especially the ones who have investigated me) tend to get touchy about that. If there are any 1811s who don't get that "Special" in their job title, I'd appreciate a pointer to some info on them.
2. OIG Special Agents also investigate internal corruption and wrongdoing. People who don't like bureaucracies running amok should love OIG Special Agents because they're the folks who slap down bureaucrats who do bad things.
3. There are Agents and Officers in other series than 1811, but it's only the 1811s who carry badges and guns.
4. The fun work, to me, is done by all the GS numbers from 1801 through 1810. There's some grunt work in there but that's also where you find the General Investigators, Special Officers, and other truly rare, weird and fun jobs

yes, i know they are Special Agent's - I was one for 15 years....i just used "agent" for the sake of brevity

i am an 1801

 

[just jk]

That says it all.

i'm also a retired Army Chief Warrant Officer

does that say it all too?

 

[just jk]

i'll say this - i dont have an irrational fear of government - because i work with some of the rubes you people are afraid of

i get that individuals can be infringed on by an agency over a singular matter....it happens, people get shit on - but people get shit on by non-government types as well - it's called life

i truly wish our government was as efficient and "smart" as so many people believe them to be to carry out all this nefarious-ness. there are so MANY moving parts to the various federal agencies - that believing that they all work synergistically to f*** over the common man - is just ridiculous

i just dont fear it because i've been in it - and seen the people that some of you are so worried about.....i really truly wish some of you had the chance to see how things work on a daily basis.

let's use the TSA with guns example. aside from the screeners - there are "Special" Agents that do some heavy lifting behind the scenes - down on the ramps - where the trucks come in - they deal with bad guys - or guys who want to cause harm to others......but they dont need guns, because maybe if they are polite enough - the bad guys will acquiesce and cooperate

or the Dept of Education - do you realize how many federal grant dollars are handed out yearly to citizen joe? those grants are awarded based on information provided by the awardee's - and sometimes they LIE - and defraud the government....sometimes they execute search warrants, and sometimes they work jointly on cases with members of other agencies on a Joint Task Force..."oh sorry boss, my agency doesnt give us guns because the people decided we didnt need them"

on an average day, the average Dept of Education Special Agent likely sticks his sig sauer in the desk drawer - and sits at a desk all day.....but because law enforcement is about being ready when the mission calls - and not getting stuck behind the 8 ball - they have guns....and they have to qualify with them at ranges - by shooting bullets...so the agency has to purchase them

the government (DOD for sure) buys ammo in MASSIVE BULK - because it is cheaper - they get a significant discount - and they also buy ammo on 10 year training cycles - it's a forecasted purchase - not a "oh crap we need a gazillion bullets right now because we're gonna quell those 2A nuts"

 

[HillRider]

i'm also a retired Army Chief Warrant Officer

does that say it all too?

I don't know, probably not. You do seem too quick to assume that a critique of the bloated Federal government and the fear of abuse of power is in some way an attack on the average federal worker, agent, special agent or whatever. Compartmentalization and just doing your job is not an argument against the excessive overreach of Federal power.

 

[just jk]

I don't know, probably not. You do seem too quick to assume that a critique of the bloated Federal government and the fear of abuse of power is in some way an attack on the average federal worker, agent, special agent or whatever. Compartmentalization and just doing your job is not an argument against the excessive overreach of Federal power.

look - i'm not arguing that the federal government doesnt over reach

i'm simply arguing your opinion that some federal police types dont need guns.....that's what this has been about - but when i tried to explain to you why they DO need guns - then you turn the argument in to a name calling event - and then you go to the whole excessive over reach

i dont believe the two are connected

not generally anyway - i will tell you something about government employees.........1) there are MANY MANY of them who are disgruntled; 2) there are MANY MANY of them who are TOO DAMN LAZY to over reach for anything besides a diet coke and a krispy kreme donut (ok i'm stereotyping a bit here); and 3) at the end of the day - they're just a bunch of normal people who want to go home to their families and watch tv

in order for the big wigs in washington to over reach - they need the people to carry it out - and i'm saying that by and large - they lack that motivated force to do that

you can believe/fear whatever you wish -i just think its funny - and i think that because i've been on the inside...and i think "gee if he only knew....."

 

[just jk]

i also think its funny that you accuse me of being "quick to assume"

when you're the one making assumptions about the duties of federal law enforcement agents without the inside knowledge to make a FORMED opinion

 

[HillRider]

look - i'm not arguing that the federal government doesnt over reach

i'm simply arguing your opinion that some federal police types dont need guns.....that's what this has been about - but when i tried to explain to you why they DO need guns - then you turn the argument in to a name calling event - and then you go to the whole excessive over reach

i dont believe the two are connected

not generally anyway - i will tell you something about government employees.........1) there are MANY MANY of them who are disgruntled; 2) there are MANY MANY of them who are TOO DAMN LAZY to over reach for anything besides a diet coke and a krispy kreme donut (ok i'm stereotyping a bit here); and 3) at the end of the day - they're just a bunch of normal people who want to go home to their families and watch tv

in order for the big wigs in washington to over reach - they need the people to carry it out - and i'm saying that by and large - they lack that motivated force to do that

you can believe/fear whatever you wish -i just think its funny - and i think that because i've been on the inside...and i think "gee if he only knew....."

I respect what you are saying. And I have worked in various positions in the state government. Believe me, I know what you are saying.

I'm not saying people should live in fear of the average federal employee.

They currently are using EPA and FDA regulations to shut down industries, hurt businesses, and harass people. And yes, they are using Fed LE in these agencies to carry out this over reach. It is happening already. This is not paranoia.