Will we ever get constitutional carry?

[MR Redneck]

I would prefer it that way. But, how would the "legally able to possess" law be enforced?

I got this one.
Legally able to possess is a right of being and American Citizen. If that wasnt infringed upon, we wouldnt even have this conversation.
In all seriousness, Enforcing legal issues such as possession of "anything" should not mandate random search. If a person is found in violation of possession while being detained on something" criminal", then by all means carry on.

 

[MR Redneck]

Dude, read my post.. You even quoted it...I said "let everyone carry under current CHL laws if they can legally possess a firearm but also with the less restrictive traveling\other exemptions."

I felt is necessary to elaborate a little more. This stuff gets me all excited.

 

[Bithabus]

I would prefer it that way. But, how would the "legally able to possess" law be enforced?

Two elements to "felon with a gun". If a cop has articulable suspicion that a person is a felon and has a gun, then he can stop the person and investigate.

 

[MR Redneck]

Nope. It's none of their damned business. It would not constitute p.c. In any shape or form.

Thats the first thing you said that made any sence to me.
You might be a Redneck!

 

[MR Redneck]

Two elements to "felon with a gun". If a cop has articulable suspicion that a person is a felon and has a gun, then he can stop the person and investigate.

Oops!
I see where this will be a problem. Im going to get pretty pissy if some SOB accuses me of being a felon!

 

[Bithabus]

Oops!
I see where this will be a problem. Im going to get pretty pissy if some SOB accuses me of being a felon!

Do you understand what "reasonable suspicion" means?

 

[matefrio]

I would prefer it that way. But, how would the "legally able to possess" law be enforced?

I get pulled over for speeding. I don't have a CHL. I'm asked the question "Are there any weapons in the car?" Like an idiot I say "Yes Sir, I have a concealed revolver under the driver seat."

How does the officer know now under current TX laws if I am legally carrying the gun?

With OC the or Constitutional Carry there will be no giving up the right to harass a law abiding citizen. If they are not doing anything wrong the officer is powerless to do, and what you seem to condone, an unreasonable search.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[txinvestigator]

I get pulled over for speeding. I don't have a CHL. I'm asked the question "Are there any weapons in the car?" Like an idiot I say "Yes Sir, I have a concealed revolver under the driver seat."

How does the officer know now under current TX laws if I am legally carrying the gun?

I see your point, and on traffic stops I get that. I am talking more about someon walkig around with open carry.

As I read this thread, it appears most here do not want a peace officer to be able to even inquire with that person unless there is reasonable suspicion or even PC for a stop.

With OC the or Constitutional Carry there will be no giving up the right to harass a law abiding citizen. If they are not doing anything wrong the officer is powerless to do, and what you seem to condone, an unreasonable search.

Don't start that...... I am asking questions to get the thoughts of those who post here. I have not given ANY indication that I condone a damn thing. When people write that "anyone legally able to posses a firearm should be allowed to carry" you have to ask the question of enforcement.

 

[matefrio]

I can't seem to get your question if it's not answered already.

Law enforcement won't be able to stop someone just because they are OCing. Just like if I'm walking home from the hardware store with a can of spraypaint in my hand. Unless there is PC they should leave me alone.

How do they know when someone is an illegal? It is not because they're ocing a sumberro or have a dark tan.
Sent from my Liberty using Tapatalk

 

[MR Redneck]

Do you understand what "reasonable suspicion" means?

Pretty much. I dont think seeing a gun on a person that aint doing nothing wrong gives reasonable suspicion.

 

[MR Redneck]

I can't seem to get your question if it's not answered already.

Law enforcement won't be able to stop someone just because they are OCing. Just like if I'm walking home from the hardware store with a can of spraypaint in my hand. Unless there is PC they should leave me alone.

How do they know when someone is an illegal? It is not because they're ocing a sumberro or have a dark tan.
Sent from my Liberty using Tapatalk

I think this is kinda like me Conceal Carrying while im traveling. Can the Cops simply search me to see if I have a gun. The only way I think they can do that is if I do something wrong and they find im carrying without a license.
So I would think that anyone who open carry's should not be bothered unless they are doing something else that would require police intervention.

 

[MR Redneck]

I sent a friend of mine in Indiana a message about this subject. Indiana has pretty much the same Licensed Open Carry were talking about.
This guy is a Veteran LE guy who has been anything form a street cop to the Swat Team Captian .
I asked him how the open carry is handled up there and I will post his message when I hear from him.
I think it would be great to have actual Police experiances noted on this subject.

 

[nalioth]

I sent a friend of mine in Indiana a message about this subject. Indiana has pretty much the same Licensed Open Carry were talking about.
This guy is a Veteran LE guy who has been anything form a street cop to the Swat Team Captian .
I asked him how the open carry is handled up there and I will post his message when I hear from him.
I think it would be great to have actual Police experiances noted on this subject.

Except we're not talking about "Licensed Open Carry" here. Anything licensable gives the law the right to stop you for a license check.

We're talking about "Constitutional Carry" - no permits needed to carry your guns (any guns) in any fashion you desire - open or concealed.

You need to find a LEO friend in Arizona to chime in.

 

[MR Redneck]

Except we're not talking about "Licensed Open Carry" here. Anything licensable gives the law the right to stop you for a license check.

We're talking about "Constitutional Carry" - no permits needed to carry your guns (any guns) in any fashion you desire - open or concealed.

You need to find a LEO friend in Arizona to chime in.

Oh I got that covered too. It's pretty much unecessary though because I can already answer that one.
Guns are not illegal in Arizona. Guns are not destroyed by the state in Arizona. No gun goes to wast in Arizona.
It is not a crime What So Ever to carry a gun in Arizona. LE cant do shit about a person carrying a gun in Arizona unless that person commits a crime.
Arizona Politicians have had a lesson on Constitutional Rights regaurding the 2nd amendment. The lesson has been and is still given by the Arizona Citizens Defense League. You should look their website up and see what new in Arizona Legislature, you might be impressed.

 

[nalioth]

Oh I got that covered too. It's pretty much unecessary though because I can already answer that one.
Guns are not illegal in Arizona. Guns are not destroyed by the state in Arizona. No gun goes to wast in Arizona.
It is not a crime What So Ever to carry a gun in Arizona. LE cant do shit about a person carrying a gun in Arizona unless that person commits a crime.
Arizona Politicians have had a lesson on Constitutional Rights regaurding the 2nd amendment. The lesson has been and is still given by the Arizona Citizens Defense League. You should look their website up and see what new in Arizona Legislature, you might be impressed.

You're preaching to the choir here, friend.

I keep up with this stuff.

 

[MR Redneck]

You're preaching to the choir here, friend.

I keep up with this stuff.

If you havent already, you should experiance Arizona in person.
I plan to visit Tombstone pretty soon. Before it's 150* out there.

 

[Texastransplant]

Should a felon be open carrying a gun? No. Will felons open carry a gun? Probably a few but very few, that's why they are a felon, they don't follow laws. "the right to bear arms, shall not be infringed" I still don't see any cavets to that statement. I think worrying about an officer stopping you if you are open carrying would be unfounded. First you'd have to be doing something wrong and a simple call in would provide any arrests or warrents. If you were in the commission of a crime, sure you'd be in trouble. I think we are barking up the wrong tree. Imagine a felon walking around opening carrying, like I said few would do that, they don't obey the law. Open carrying by a felon would be saying here I am put me in jail, if for any reason stopped.

Plain and simple open carrying, constitutional carry would save a lot of problems and states that have it have no problems with it. Since I moved from Illinois I can tell you the big worry there is getting ccw/chl passed. Guys worry all the time if they get it how they will handle it and so on. It seems the same here only with constitutional carry, how will it be handled. Well in my opinoin just like it is everywhere else. You carry, you obey the law and it's no differnt then anything else. Yes an occasional stupid criminal will carry but their actions will come to light sooner or later and they will be in trouble. I still think it would be a mighty stupid felon to open carry while not commiting a crime, he gets to go to jail and hasn't commited a crime other then carrying. That's not their MO.

 

[KAK]

And the moral of the stor here is that good people will be good people and bad people will be bad people before and after constitutional carry, campus carry, any damn carry.

Good people don't turn bad when you give them a gun!

 

[M. Sage]

I get pulled over for speeding. I don't have a CHL. I'm asked the question "Are there any weapons in the car?" Like an idiot I say "Yes Sir, I have a concealed revolver under the driver seat."

How does the officer know now under current TX laws if I am legally carrying the gun?

It doesn't matter unless he has reason to suspect you aren't carrying it legally. That's the way the system is set up to work. A police officer is generally restricted from going after you unless you're doing something that gives them reason to believe you're doing illegal things.

That said, he's going to run you through the system when he gets back to the car, so if you're FIP (felon in possession), you're going to jail.

I see your point, and on traffic stops I get that. I am talking more about someon walkig around with open carry.

I covered that already. If open carry is legal, walking around with a gun stuck on your hip is not probable cause to detain and investigate.

It's legal to walk down the street, how do the police enforce the law against escaped felons? Can they stop people at random for walking down the street under the assumption that they could be doing so illegally as an escapee? No, that would be absurd and it would be illegal.

As I read this thread, it appears most here do not want a peace officer to be able to even inquire with that person unless there is reasonable suspicion or even PC for a stop.

That's a consensual (defined as "Relating to or involving consent, esp. mutual consent.") encounter. That's different, it would go something like this:

"Excuse me, sir? Is it legal for you to carry a handgun?"

He's asked, I'm under no compunction to answer or even stick around. I can acknowledge the question and keep right on with my day because he has no PC to say otherwise. I'm not detained or arrested. I am in fact free to go. You can go the polite "yes, now excuse me" route or you can tell him to pound sand.

A consensual encounter with police can be ended at any time by the citizen. The officer in question would have no power in keeping you there or forcing you to continue the conversation (not that they have the power to force you to converse with them).

I'm Ok with asking to a point. Harass me and I'll be reporting an officer to his department and raising hell. Ask me nice, I'll be polite and possibly have a conversation. Be rude about it and I'll answer in kind.

 

[KAK]

Well put I like your input.