WSJ recognizes unhealthy militarization of police

[breakingcontact]

Rise of the Warrior Cop - WSJ.com

This is a real sore subject with me. Yes, there is a need for some sort of specialized law enforcement and I agree that "most" LEOs are decent and trying to do their job.

The increase in SWAT/military style uniforms and military (or often less professional contractor/operator) appearance, armored vehicles, UAVs and increasingly "them vs us mentality" of many LEOs and departments pose a great danger to our civil liberties.

Will say again, I'm not a cop hater, but these are civilian law enforcers paid for by the tax payers, not Green Berets patrolling their AO in a combat zone. They need to look, act and be equipped accordingly.

Interested to hear from those in law enforcement about where "the line" should be as I recognize it's a dangerous job. The LEO worshippers need to FALL BACK.

 

[TX69]

Local Cops Ready for War With Homeland Security-Funded Military Weapons - The Daily Beast

 

[TX69]

ACLU Launches Nationwide Investigation into Police Use of Military Technology & Tactics | American Civil Liberties Union

Stimulating The Militarization of North Texas Police — Trey Garrison

Georgia police acquired $200 million worth of military-grade vehicles and weapons through DoD | End the Lie – Independent News

Why do America's cops need an armored tank? - Technology & science - Tech and gadgets - Auto Tech | NBC News



» Another Police Department Gets Military Vehicle Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

City Council Approves New Military Vehicle for Police | KOMU.com | Columbia, MO |

Portland police get new military grade armored vehicle – Seth and the City - BDN Maine Blogs

Sheriff gets heavy-duty military vehicle - Chicago Tribune

University Of California Police Seeking Funding For Armored Vehicle, Despite Opposition

 

[Younggun]

If things ever really get ugly it could either be a big asset or a more local source of oppression.

Guess it depends how much you trust your local law enforcement and long you think they will stay trustworthy.


I believe most local LEO are on the side of the people, but that's not to say there aren't small pockets where the opposite might be true.

Then there is the question of just how bad things would have to get before LEOs switched sides.

 

[mosin]

Per cato institute study
Texas is second in the nation for no knocks on innocent people, it is #1 for killing innocents in the process, also #1 for cops being killed serving no knocks on innocents.

 

[M. Sage]

There have been a LOT of articles on this lately from a pretty wide range of publications. WSJ tends to run to the conservative side, and you can find similar articles in far-left rags, too.

 

[Shotgun Jeremy]

Well, copperas cove police have said they welcome the open carry Texas guys into cove whenever they wanna come, so I think that cove, harker heights, gatesville, kempner, and lampasas are all good to go.

 

[mosin]

Botched Paramilitary Police Raids | Cato Institute

 

[breakingcontact]

There have been a LOT of articles on this lately from a pretty wide range of publications. WSJ tends to run to the conservative side, and you can find similar articles in far-left rags, too.

Agree but I'm surprised to see it in WSJ. Wouldn't be as surprised to see it elsewhere left or right.

 

[breakingcontact]

Does the Dept of Education really need a SWAT team?

 

[Thegomezclan]

The FDA has their own SWAT team also.

 

[robocop10mm]

I would be far more concerned with the militarization of Federal LE agencies. IRS, Education, USDA, IG, etc. They are the ones to be concerned with. 98% of local LE are reasonably trustworthy. Local control, by local officials, tied to the community and not separated from the people by miles of bureaucracy are far less likely to abuse their power. Federal agencies with no ties to any particular community and so far removed from "we the people" are a disaster waiting for a place to happen.

 

[Younggun]

Which is probably the only reason libs are being told to care.

Wouldn't want that military equipment in the wrong hands when the .gov rolls in.

 

[Acera]

I would be far more concerned with the militarization of Federal LE agencies. IRS, Education, USDA, IG, etc. They are the ones to be concerned with. 98% of local LE are reasonably trustworthy. Local control, by local officials, tied to the community and not separated from the people by miles of bureaucracy are far less likely to abuse their power. Federal agencies with no ties to any particular community and so far removed from "we the people" are a disaster waiting for a place to happen.

That is being changed by Dept. of Homeland Security. If you notice they are putting a lot of their ideas in place and forcing the locals to follow their guidelines. HPD just relented and is going to black and white cars again due to DHS pressure. Seen an number of local PDs do the same thing. DHS controls a lot of money and is using it to make sure the local guys know who the bosses are and jump in line. Also they are pushing a standardization program for uniforms also.

Kinda like basic training, make them give up their individualism first, then you can integrate them into your team.

 

[cbigclarke]

Does the Dept of Education really need a SWAT team?

Have you seen today's kids

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[breakingcontact]

I would be far more concerned with the militarization of Federal LE agencies. IRS, Education, USDA, IG, etc. They are the ones to be concerned with. 98% of local LE are reasonably trustworthy. Local control, by local officials, tied to the community and not separated from the people by miles of bureaucracy are far less likely to abuse their power. Federal agencies with no ties to any particular community and so far removed from "we the people" are a disaster waiting for a place to happen.

I agree overall. We should be more concerned about out of state federal agencies trying to enforce the administrations unconstitutional will on the people. However a couple posts after yours the DHS funding and grants to local PDs was mentioned. That is where the federal agencies get partial control over weapons, training, doctrine and possibly loyalty of local PDs.

 

[OIF2]

A couple of thoughts on this...everyone agrees here (I think) that cops should have all the tools they need to enforce the law. What I don't see is anyone describing what is "militarization". Or what is "too much" or "going too far"? Is it uniforms and helmets? You've got to be kidding. A jump suit is far more comfortable while wearing body armor. Helmets are protective gear; not an offensive weapon. No ceramic-plated body armor, then? Nice to have while under rifle-fire. Again, it's protective gear. Read the news; rifle fights with the police happen a lot, with the patrol cops usually getting the worst of it initially. No entry teams? It's the safest way to arrest a whacked out individual barricaded in a last-stand apartment. A daily occurrence in most large cities. No ARs? Bad guys got them; along with other stuff. A suspect's Marlin .30-30 is still outguns a Glock .40. An AR provides superiority. Looks really military, though. A show of overwhelming force sometimes convinces the suspect to give up, without a fight. OK, those evil-looking armored vehicles, then. No suspect or citizen has ever been killed by a vehicle that I know of; sure is a lot safer than approaching a heavily armed suspect on foot, or in a Ford Crown Vic. The LAPD had to borrow an armored car to rescue citizens and wounded coppers during the North Hollywood shootout. A lot of people here like to say that "it's better to have it, and not need it, than need it and not have it". But I guess that doesn't apply to your local police. Might look too "scary".

When I was in Iraq (twice), no one begrudged me the best gear money could buy, so that the odds were better that I got home alive. Cops like to go home, too. The days of the cop walking a beat wearing a nice uniform, leather belt and a six-gun, talking to little kids, are long-gone. I grew up in that environment in a small town in CT. That town now has it's own SWAT team, and it's been used to great effect numerous times, without loss of life. Times change. While overall violent crime is down, criminals willing to challenge authority and go out with a bang are up. It's not just big cities. A cop just got killed in Killeen by an angry Soldier with an AK; hardly noted in the press. That was a SWAT call-out and stand-off. Another cop was killed in College Station awhile back, also by a barricaded (and unstable) suspect. It's dangerous out there, even in the small towns. My training officer, on my first day out of the Academy, told me I didn't get paid to be spit on, beaten up or shot at. It happens, but it isn't in the job description. The more options available, the safer it is for the officer and citizens he protects. I felt the same way in combat, when an Apache gunship was called in to do the heavy stuff, instead of using an Infantry platoon in an assault.

Maybe there might be a point as to why the FDA, USDA or the Dept of Education needs a SWAT Team. I'd like to know that, too. A curious press should look into it, but they're (the press) too busy covering the Trayvon caper or the next royal heir. Looks like the scrutiny is misdirected; pressure on the press, and it's priorities, might be a better idea.

Hope I haven't offended too many people; seems to happen often here. My views are based on 24 years of working in a big, violent city and too many times not having the equipment that would have made my job safer. I was the cop that went to B&B gunshop in North Hollywood, looking for better weapons to counter the asswipes shooting up the neighborhood after a botched bank robbery (B&B was very helpful). Because we had no armored transport, cops put their own personal body armor on Chevy black and whites for makeshift cover, then used the cars to rescue wounded citizens. A private armored car was later "borrowed", to good effect. Off-duty SWAT coppers were choppered out to the scene quickly (some were working out at the Academy, an hour's drive away in LA city traffic) by LAPD airships; we had a couple of military-looking surplus Hueys that worked well.

I learned during spousal-boxing radio calls (domestic violence incidents) that there's ALWAYS two sides to a story. Times have changed in police work.
Bob

 

[CZ guy]

Thank you for your thoughts Bob...... very well said.

 

[breakingcontact]

OIF2 aka Bob, I'm glad you posted. I don't think any thinking person denies that law enforcement can be dangerous work. Most appreciate the beat cop that is trying to do his job honorably. What prompted this thread was both the WSJ article and the geared up, heavily tattooed officer, complete with OD getup and combat boots I saw recently who gave me the equivalent of a "f*ck you" look while his non LEO buddies were all man crushing on him. Very unprofessional appearance more fitting for a contractor in a free fire zone.

Armor and other life saving equipment is necessary. As far as weapons go, of course modern weapons are needed. Tactics have to evolve too. I get all of these things.

You mentioned Iraq, I as a fellow former serviceman appreciate you sacrifice and service. But this isn't Iraq. This is the US and we have rights under our Constitution and the police are civilian police. So I suppose that's my main beef and what I consider the militarization of police: doctrine. That's where the armor, weapons and tactics are misused in military style ways. Police are indeed civilians although that term is misused in the colloquial use.

Midnight snatch and grab raids, knocking down the door to the wrong house, no refusal DUI check points (I barely drink at all), shooting peoples dogs for the wrong reasons, acting on sketchy tips and storming their houses, detaining the innocent homeowners and just the overall illegal violation of people's rights in the name of public safety: that's my issue with the militarization of police.

What does that have to do with armor/personal protection gear/armored vehicles, short barrel rifles/shotguns, automatic weapons and tactics like the man stack breaking down the door to a house and entering after tossing in gas or flash bangs? The more armored, heavily armed and trained in military tactics a department is, the more brazen they become in their willingness to conduct such raids often improperly or on innocent people who were mistakenly identified. When we mix in federal LE agencies these violations often occur without warrants and are illegal and immoral.

I'm not an Austin hippie drinking rainbow soup. At the same time I don't view the "us vs them" militarization of police as a positive step towards promoting freedom. It's about control.

 

[txinvestigator]

Per cato institute study
Texas is second in the nation for no knocks on innocent people, it is #1 for killing innocents in the process, also #1 for cops being killed serving no knocks on innocents.

Source, please