Assisted suicide expands...

[Eli]

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

I'm a Jew, we value life.

Eli

 

[leVieux]

Hospice ends in death.
Usually within two weeks the patient is dead due to the constant
morphine doses.
Abortion is murder.

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Yes, BUT: ALL life ends in Death.

A referral to hospice means that those involved have recognized that further ‘’treatment’’ would be futile; and it is time to switch from lifesaving but often brutal therapies to giving support & comfort to a dying person.

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[leVieux]

I'm a Jew, we value life.

Eli

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Most modern Christian ‘’Ethics’’ came from ancient Jewish principles.

Indeed, much or what Jesus taught came directly from Jewish scripture & tradition.

This shouldn’t be any ‘’issue’’ for us here & now.

Thank you for participating & speaking.

leVieux

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[benenglish]

I'm a Jew, we value life.

Eli

Thank you.

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

...and when we specifically leave the instructions: No intubation and/or DNR that otherwise may save our lives, are we condoning suicide?

 

[Darqhelmet]

It’s none of the Governments business. Medical professionals and patients.

 

[leVieux]

...and when we specifically leave the instructions: No intubation and/or DNR that otherwise may save our lives, are we condoning suicide?

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No, we are following patients’ wishes.

Sometimes these are given directly to Medical Personnel & other times relayed via next-of-kin. Even then; there is no ‘’DNR’’ order if there is a significant chance of recovery.

Allowing an ill or injured person to control their therapy is not ‘’condoning suicide’’.

We must follow ‘’informed consent’’ laws.

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[TipBledsoe]

...and when we specifically leave the instructions: No intubation and/or DNR that otherwise may save our lives, are we condoning suicide?

No. I don't think anyone considers the preference of being allowed to die naturally as suicide.

Those of us having a Living Will for medical instructions, its purpose generally is to communicate our wish for being allowed to die naturally, without machines performing basic life sustaining functions (e.g. breathing, pumping blood) prolonging a terminal condition and impending death.

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

leVieux and TipBledsoe,

Thank you for your input.

 

[Eli]

...and when we specifically leave the instructions: No intubation and/or DNR that otherwise may save our lives, are we condoning suicide?

I can answer this somewhat.
My 82-year-old mother has Lewy Body Dementia. She knows it's going to kill her - or, more properly, complications from it are. She hates this disease - it's what Robin Williams had and committed suicide to escape - and my mother doesn't want to live as an invalid any longer than she has to. She's not suicidal, but she has a DNR in place because it just doesn't make sense to prolong her life any more at this point.
A DNR isn't suicide, it's simply allowing nature to take its course when quality of life is substantially reduced.

Eli

 

[baboon]

My grandfather on my dad’s side was from Sweden. IIRC if your child had a genetic disease the child would not qualify for socialized medical. The health care was your direct responsibility. This had people aborting kids. If two adults were to marry and they both had a genetic disease no healthcare for the offspring.

My grandfather’s had a sister who stayed in Sweden. I can’t remember what disease she had but she never married or had kids. When she died the subject of her estate came up. Albert for some reason wasn’t interested in going to claim it. I told him if he wanted I would go with him to Sweden, he declined going.

 

[Byrd666]

A DNR isn't suicide, it's simply allowing nature to take its course when quality of life is substantially reduced.

My Father had a DNR order in place while he was hospitalized, and it carried over when he was transported home under hospice care. Not that hospice really did anything after he arrived home, other than call the county Coroner after he passed a few, very short hours later. And while I understand and will absolutely honor a DNR, it almost pisses me off. As a type of selfishness on my part, it almost feels like they are just taking the easy way out. Now, if I'm completely honest with myself, I know that that is not the case at all. A body can only take so much before the brain just can't take it anymore. Whether it be pain, inability to control the mind and thought processes, or inability to control the body itself, sometimes the mind, body, and soul just gives up to stop the attacks on it/them.

And while I won't, at the this time, participate in, or condone, any type of suicide. I can understand, to a degree, the idea of suicide in very few and very limited scenarios

 

[Axxe55]

people with chronic and painful disease will often think of suicide if the prognosis isisnt good for quality of life1!

 

[TheDan]

What do y'all think?

In a free and informed society?

There are people in Canada arguing that 12 year olds are capable of making that choice.

...and that's why the government can't be involved. I don't want the 80% of medical practitioners that are leftists and marginally competent to be involved either, but I doubt I'll ever make enough money to actually get the good ones. A DNI will have to suffice for me. Would pair it with a DNR, but many of that 80% take a DNR to mean not even providing basic CPR.

Governments are here to support the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness, not enable the taking of those things away.

 

[Axxe55]

In a free and informed society?

...and that's why the government can't be involved. I don't want the 80% of medical practitioners that are leftists and marginally competent to be involved either, but I doubt I'll ever make enough money to actually get the good ones. A DNI will have to suffice for me. Would pair it with a DNR, but many of that 80% take a DNR to mean not even providing basic CPR.

marginally competent imo you are being overly generous!

 

[Lead Belly]

My pickle ball buddy is ~70 and got Covid just Nov 2023, got real bad and they put him in hospice. We all thought he was a goner.

He recovered and is back playing golf again.

 

[bigbigtex]

It's already here.

States Where Medical Aid in Dying is Already Legally Authorized

Oregon
Washington
Montana
Vermont
California
Colorado
Washington D.C.
Hawai‘i
New Jersey
Maine
New Mexico

States Where Medical Aid in Dying is Authorized

www.compassionandchoices.org

More info:

Death with Dignity U.S. Legislative Status State Map

Explore our state-by-state guide on end-of-life options. Understand the legal landscape and procedures surrounding Death with Dignity laws in various states.

deathwithdignity.org

Even more.

Assisted suicide in the United States - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

Notice: They're all 'blue states', as in 'ultra left'...

 

[Axxe55]

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No, we are following patients’ wishes.

Sometimes these are given directly to Medical Personnel & other times relayed via next-of-kin. Even then; there is no ‘’DNR’’ order if there is a significant chance of recovery.

Allowing an ill or injured person to control their therapy is not ‘’condoning suicide’’.

We must follow ‘’informed consent’’ laws.

<>

the patient stilll has final say in their treatment and iirc adoctor hsd to abide that legally!

 

[TheDan]

The whole interview is kind of "meh", but the last 4 minutes are very topical to this thread. Canada saves money by pushing suicide on people instead of treatment. Yay free healthcare!