Moscow massacre

[majormadmax]

The intelligence community sure thinks that something is brewing for here now that al qaeda has safe haven in Afghanistan and we probably have limited HUMINT coming out of there since we pulled out.

Please share your source from the IC, as many of us would like to know where this information came from!

I suspect it's more likely from the NY Times or Washington Post, like most people's "intelligence."

 

[DaBull]

The Russian/Soviet way is to govern by fear. In reality, its a paper tiger. Every once in a while bands of determined Russians figure out the fear is not based on reality and stage a coup (there are Russian citizens fighting Russian Border Troops in Russia now). It does not surprise me that terrorists can get in to a country on a war footing and do this...particularly since Putin is trying to show the war is in Ukraine, not Russia. But he really needs to tell that to the Ukrainians, who are sending him signals via drones that this is no longer the case.

ISIS-K's motivation is revenge. Russia backs Assad and helped them destroy their Caliphate in the region. ISIS fighters came from all over to join the caliphate and many were killed by Russia and Syria (and the US) in its defense. When they went home, they plotted their revenge. Very easy to plan and stage from Afghanistan now.

Putin also know this would happen (somewhere, sometime soon) because the US told him right before they publicly warned American citizens in Russia to avoid large public gatherings. Unclear if we knew who, when, and where...don't want to give away sources or methods. He may have let it happen because it is useful to him politically. If you haven't noticed, there is no end to the amount of Russian blood he is willing to shed to achieve his goals.

 

[oldag]

Garry Kasparov believes it was a false flag.

In one of the most surveilled cities on earth, where you can be arrested in 30 seconds for whispering “no war,” the terrorists continued their attack for more than an hour and then simply drove away.

The FSB, Russia’s state security service, claims to have arrested four suspects near Ukraine, at one of the most fortified borders in the world. Or did the suspects actually drive to Russian ally Belarus, as that nation’s ambassador to Russia said? Considering the amount of materiel and preparation required to do so much damage to a venue the size of a small village, it’s odd that the terrorists would suddenly turn into bungling amateurs by carrying their Tajik passports and heading to a militarized border.

 

[DaBull]

...the terrorists continued their attack for more than an hour and then simply drove away.

I wasn't aware they were in there that long. At the very least, police should have been able to surround the building until FSB or SWAT arrived. Maybe the fact that the building was burning enabled their getaway.

As far as bumbling terrorist, that is par for the course. Those who conduct these sorts of operations are not too smart. The smart guys are the ones across the border in a failed state giving the orders

The former Soviet Union was filled with people from the "stans" (Uzbekistan, Kazakhistan, Turkmenistan) who had tribal bonds with folks living across the border in Afghanistan and Pakistan. There must still be networks that allow movement of people and goods in and out of Russia. Borders mean little to the tribes.

Not sure where the terrorist were caught, but they might have planned to connect with Chechens in Ukraine or a friendly tribe closer to Turkey, but then were forced to go to Plan B or C. Easy to believe if this was supposed to be a suicide mission and they chickened out...in which case there never was an escape plan.

 

[Jakashh]

Please share your source from the IC, as many of us would like to know where this information came from!

I suspect it's more likely from the NY Times or Washington Post, like most people's "intelligence."

Former CIA Deputy Director Michael Morell’s Podcast, “Intelligence Matters”, with former US Ambassador to Afghanistan, Ronald Neumann.

It was mentioned that this is a concern in one of his episodes on Afghanistan and the US pulling out of the country. This episode was years before the US pulled out, and was speculating on what may happen if Trump pulls out.

Here’s the specific episode linked below.



I’m aware of your experience in this subject matter, perhaps you could share your viewpoint on it.

 

[majormadmax]

Former CIA Deputy Director Michael Morell’s Podcast, “Intelligence Matters”, with former US Ambassador to Afghanistan, Ronald Neumann.

It was mentioned that this is a concern in one of his episodes on Afghanistan and the US pulling out of the country. This episode was years before the US pulled out, and was speculating on what may happen if Trump pulls out.

Here’s the specific episode linked below.



I’m aware of your experience in this subject matter, perhaps you could share your viewpoint on it.

Former CIA Deputy Director Michael Morell no longer speaks on behalf of the U.S. Intelligence Community.

He has every right to spout his own opinion on matters.

I am very sensitive to sources as they are just as much, if not more, important than the actual information itself!

I will attest the actual IC is very much focused on the developments and ongoings in Afghanistan, but the possibility of the Taliban/AQ conducting another 9/11 attack on the US are very remote.

And, after decades of being a member of the IC, I can tell you there is a lot of hype on potential threats that never materialize (it's a CYA thing, and has gotten worse since 9/11), and not enough on those that actual do!

 

[Jakashh]

I will attest the actual IC is very much focused on the developments and ongoings in Afghanistan, but the possibility of the Taliban/AQ conducting another 9/11 attack on the US are very remote.

And, after decades of being a member of the IC, I can tell you there is a lot of hype on potential threats that never materialize (it's a CYA thing, and has gotten worse since 9/11), and not enough on those that actual do!

That’s good to hear that they don’t have a chance on another attack here.

Regarding the lack of focus on what actually does materialize, is that just a case of some things slipping through the cracks, or is it a greater issue that isn’t being addressed? Are people assigning more value to dubious sources over more credible ones?

 

[Gordo]

How Russia gets info from suspects:
Russian interrogation

 

[General Zod]

How Russia gets info from suspects:
Russian interrogation

Yep. Worthless techniques that'll get the person being tortured to admit to ANYTHING just to make it stop. They get the answers they want that way...but not necessarily the answers that are true.

 

[Gordo]

Sometimes the interrogation method fits the crime.
Who cares if the info is correct or not, or it is used in anyway.

 

[General Zod]

Sometimes the interrogation method fits the crime.
Who cares if the info is correct or not, or it is used in anyway.

Well, if you're interested in finding out who's responsible rather than simply assigning blame in a politically useful direction and making the "evidence" fit, then it can be important to get good info.

 

[Gordo]

It is also important that the punishment fits the crime.
Something this country is forgetting.
Kill a kid, loose your life quickly.
Kill more than one kid, die painfully, over a long time.

 

[General Zod]

It is also important that the punishment fits the crime.
Something this country is forgetting.
Kill a kid, loose your life quickly.
Kill more than one kid, die painfully, over a long time.

Hence the need for good information from interrogation, not "please I'll tell you anything just stop" - the need to make sure the right people are eliminated for the crime rather than simply having another excuse for the state to commit new crimes of its own.

 

[cycleguy2300]

It is also important that the punishment fits the crime.
Something this country is forgetting.
Kill a kid, loose your life quickly.
Kill more than one kid, die painfully, over a long time.

I dont think it is a good idea to have vigilante or street justice as acceptable treatment, even in something as "bad" as this. The rule of law should still apply.

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[surevaliance]

This is a screenshot from the video of Moscow massacre.
Note the men in blue pool-overs and blue jeans. They were not in a hurry to escape. Instead, they were communicating with each other, taking videos, then one of them locked the exit door, blocked evacuation route.
The top left image shows two FSB officers convoying one of the suspects. They wear the same kind of clothing.
Have those dumbfucks really tried to adopt the “gray man” concept?

 

[surevaliance]

Another proof that Putin and his minions from FSB are behind this massacre:
The man in the Crocus Hall and the FSB officer escorting one of the “terrorists” is the same person.

 

[cycleguy2300]

The next set of talking points for russian trolls:

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[TXAZ]

Former CIA Deputy Director Michael Morell no longer speaks on behalf of the U.S. Intelligence Community.

He has every right to spout his own opinion on matters.

I am very sensitive to sources as they are just as much, if not more, important than the actual information itself!

I will attest the actual IC is very much focused on the developments and ongoings in Afghanistan, but the possibility of the Taliban/AQ conducting another 9/11 attack on the US are very remote.

And, after decades of being a member of the IC, I can tell you there is a lot of hype on potential threats that never materialize (it's a CYA thing, and has gotten worse since 9/11), and not enough on those that actual do!

^^^^ QFT

 

[surevaliance]

The next set of talking points for russian trolls:

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

First off, she’s an alcoholic…

 

[TXAZ]

Yep. Worthless techniques that'll get the person being tortured to admit to ANYTHING just to make it stop. They get the answers they want that way...but not necessarily the answers that are true.

Not in the hands of a skilled interrogator. If they want the truth and have patience they’ll get it.
Your body and mind may be mush but they will get it.