Oregon voters challenged to pay attention to gun control ballot measure 114

[DougC]

As discussed by the Washington Gun Law YouTube channel Oregon voters are presented with a ballot measure that is promoted one way but will have a very bad effect on buying a gun. While liberal state gun laws are far from Texas it is a good example how the anti-gun elected officials can fool voters to get what they really want.

With the Texas legislature going back in session in January 2023 we need to watchful of what is being proposed for new and/or change to laws.

 

[Sasquatch]

As discussed by the Washington Gun Law YouTube channel Oregon voters are presented with a ballot measure that is promoted one way but will have a very bad effect on buying a gun. While liberal state gun laws are far from Texas it is a good example how the anti-gun elected officials can fool voters to get what they really want.

With the Texas legislature going back in session in January 2023 we need to watchful of what is being proposed for new and/or change to laws.

These are things they've been trying to get to stick for years - and slowly but surely the anti-gunners have been taking ground. Years ago it was UBC. IN 2020 they reformed CHL laws and eliminated state pre-emption, and got "safe storage" requirements thru ballot measure.

This year they're going after mags over 10 rounds, as well as mandating permits to purcahse - which will require training *from the police* before the permit is issued, which is seperate from a CHL.

114, if it passes and is not immediately stayed thru lawsuits - will literally kill every mom & pop gun shop. There are NO police departments that provide such training in order to get the purchase permits. It will take months for them to design, implement, and hold classes plus issue permits.

This measure is squarely designed to kill the bulk of gun sales. The only gun stores left will be big boxes outfits like Cabela's, Sportsman's Warehouse, or Walmart. Even the largest of independent FFL's cannot survive months without a sale.

IF that passes, Oregon will have the worst gun laws in the country.

 

[DougC]

Spoiler alert: Washington Gun Law has an update to prior video they posted on Oregon's ballot measure 114. This is a very in-depth discussion about the measure really getting into the weeds and woods. Watch only if your brain won't melt with details.

IMO, if it were to pass as discussed in the video concealed license will be almost impossible to get or renew even for LEOs. FFLs in state will go out of business. Nobody will be able to get the required training before getting a permit to buy a gun ever time as there is no budget for training by state officials or certified trainers. Hunting will eventually be stopped due to lack of hunters having guns. Grim news for residents of the 'Beaver State' with any interest in having/using guns.

Again if passed it would take years of efforts in the courts to get in declared unconstitutional. Heads up for voting Texans to make sure nothing like this gets started in Austin.

 

[DougC]

Oregon law enforcement has concerns about Measure 114​

 

[DougC]

The following is only for the extreme political junkies who want to watch a pro/con debate on Zoom about the ballot option. I watched a few portions but lost interest. At least there is some public discussion of what will be a really bad anti-gun law in Oregon. If passed it will take years for Oregon residents to get their 2A rights back. They aren't so great now but this will make it worse.

 

[DougC]

Looks like ballot measure 114 was passed. Here is one take on what happens next. Lots of court challenges to follow.

The silver lining in Measure 114's passage​

 

[Sasquatch]

There's really no silver lining to that nonsense, despite the Bearing Arms article.

For example, a training requirement just to own a firearm, if Oregonians are required to pay for it, amounts to a poll tax. You cannot require a fee in order for someone to be able to exercise a basic, constitutionally protected right at all. Yes, the door for a training requirement for concealed carry was left open by Bruen, but this isn’t about carrying a gun. It’s about even owning one.

New York, Illinois, New Jersey, and IIRC Massachusetts (maybe even Maryland) require permits to purchase, and they've been so-far upheld by the courts or left unchallenged. The notion that SCOTUS was okay with the infringement caused by training requirements to carry concealed shows us that SCOTUS is still weak - and OK with requiring training and permits and fees to exercise your *rights* - unless they get a judge like Roger Benitez, I doubt the circuit court will strike it down, the 9th will probably leave it be as well, so to settle the issue, it'll wind up in front of SCOTUS - which may or may not be OK *if* the make up of the court stays as is. IF the libs add more lib justices, we're fucked. If some of the conservatives die or retire during a liberal presidency, we're fucked.

If anything - this law's passage should be used as an example of why ballot initiatives are a BAD thing and should be eliminated. The anti-gunners couldn't get this shit thru the Legislature, so they astroturfed it. It failed (barely) the first go round. The same group pushed this one, and it looks like it's squeaking thru. The election isn't certified YET, but the votes left are from mostly liberal counties. You know what that means.

All of this law is terrible. Creates unfunded mandates for LE agencies to design and implement training for the permit to purchase nonsense, which is different from them already handling the CHL stuff. Then there's the fact that if you own 11+ round capacity mags, you're restricted how & where you can use them, and if you're stopped with them, you have to prove you owned them prior to the law going into effect. Guilty till proven innocent. Another thing likely to be stricken, but maybe not. Don't trust the courts.

The public database of gun owners - yeah, huge privacy invasion. Nothing happened to California when its DOJ released that info.

Its bad law. Very bad law. The dems have 40 years of voter fraud and manipulation - and unless Oregon sheds vote by mail, they'll never get non-liberal governor, or repeal these things thru ballot initiative again.

 

[DougC]

There's really no silver lining to that nonsense, despite the Bearing Arms article.



New York, Illinois, New Jersey, and IIRC Massachusetts (maybe even Maryland) require permits to purchase, and they've been so-far upheld by the courts or left unchallenged. The notion that SCOTUS was okay with the infringement caused by training requirements to carry concealed shows us that SCOTUS is still weak - and OK with requiring training and permits and fees to exercise your *rights* - unless they get a judge like Roger Benitez, I doubt the circuit court will strike it down, the 9th will probably leave it be as well, so to settle the issue, it'll wind up in front of SCOTUS - which may or may not be OK *if* the make up of the court stays as is. IF the libs add more lib justices, we're fucked. If some of the conservatives die or retire during a liberal presidency, we're fucked.

If anything - this law's passage should be used as an example of why ballot initiatives are a BAD thing and should be eliminated. The anti-gunners couldn't get this shit thru the Legislature, so they astroturfed it. It failed (barely) the first go round. The same group pushed this one, and it looks like it's squeaking thru. The election isn't certified YET, but the votes left are from mostly liberal counties. You know what that means.

All of this law is terrible. Creates unfunded mandates for LE agencies to design and implement training for the permit to purchase nonsense, which is different from them already handling the CHL stuff. Then there's the fact that if you own 11+ round capacity mags, you're restricted how & where you can use them, and if you're stopped with them, you have to prove you owned them prior to the law going into effect. Guilty till proven innocent. Another thing likely to be stricken, but maybe not. Don't trust the courts.

The public database of gun owners - yeah, huge privacy invasion. Nothing happened to California when its DOJ released that info.

Its bad law. Very bad law. The dems have 40 years of voter fraud and manipulation - and unless Oregon sheds vote by mail, they'll never get non-liberal governor, or repeal these things thru ballot initiative again.

All very good points. There is a striking difference between TX and OR on what the voters get. It took decades but TX went from no concealed carry to constitutional carry. And now OR is going to make even buying a firearm impossible. It will take years for the state/federal courts to correct the situation in light of SCOTUS Buren decision.

From a civil rights perspective the OR government is ignoring the "...shall not be infringed" bit. One doesn't need a permit to buy a typewriter to exercise free speech, purchase permit to own/possess a religious book for worship or take training in how to pray. Or how about people in community gather to petition the school board for a redress of school policy.

 

[Lonesome Dove]

And then there was Oregon. Anyone remember it?

 

[Sasquatch]

All very good points. There is a striking difference between TX and OR on what the voters get. It took decades but TX went from no concealed carry to constitutional carry. And now OR is going to make even buying a firearm impossible. It will take years for the state/federal courts to correct the situation in light of SCOTUS Buren decision.

From a civil rights perspective the OR government is ignoring the "...shall not be infringed" bit. One doesn't need a permit to buy a typewriter to exercise free speech, purchase permit to own/possess a religious book for worship or take training in how to pray. Or how about people in community gather to petition the school board for a redress of school policy.

The democrats have smelled blood in the water since their 2018 mid terms. They went all out.

We defeated a ballot initiative similar to 114 back then before it even got on the ballot because of the ballot title submitted and the description of what it did. Took a lot of public commentary about it to the Sec State's office.

After I left in 2020, Oregon had a ballot initiative that passed that stripped preemption protections, giving force of law to no guns signs, and mandating safe storeage laws. The antigunners weaponized ballot initiative process against gun rights folk. They know low info voters will vote yes on shit that says "strengthens background checks and makes it harder to buy a gun" when in reality they're voting for unlawful, unconstitutional crap including registries, purchase permit schemes, and draconian limitations. Its not quite "handgun roster" bad there yet - but overall this will make Oregon the worst for gun laws in the US.

I'm really glad Texas does NOT have ballot initiatives and general mail in voting - the day Texas goes mail in voting for anything but absentee, the state will go blue and not go red. That shit needs fought tooth and nail if it ever gets floated. Same with initiative petition nonsense.

Nothing at all stopping groups or individuals from lobbying your representative to sponsor a bill in the legislature, and letting the people's elected representatives vote on the issue - there is no need for voters to file and put measures directly on the ballot. Literally nothing good comes from it.

I do think Oregon has it right referrendums - that being IF the legislature passes a terrible law, and enough signatures are collected in a given amount of time, that law is put on hold and voted on during the next election. That's how Oregon has - to this day - put the brakes on general sales taxes. Legislature has put the screws to the people something like 8 times since I've been born, trying to implement a sales tax on top of the property taxes and personal (and business) income tax schemes already in place. Via referrendum, we shot that nonsense down bigly.

We also repealed the law granting drivers licenses to illegal aliens via referrendum - as the lefty legislaters put that shit into law even after the Real ID act was passed federally. Oregon dems love illegals more than citizens. They bend over backwards for them while shitting in those born in that state, or moving in form elsewhere.

But that's where I draw the line, personally.

 

[DougC]

Banned in Oregon, the 1884 Colt Lighting rifle chambered in .44-40. Its an high-capactty assault rifle per passage of Ballot measure 114. See photo and watch this video from an Oregon FFL dealer explain the insanity of what OR voters did to their 2A right. He and other FFL dealers in OR are being put out of business.

For a legal take from Washington Gun Law channel here is more of the same. To bad its going to be left up to the courts to restore a god given and constitutional right. It will take years to undo the damage. "This measure, which was sold as a simple "magazine ban" was in reality, a very comprehensive and massive infringement onto the right of individuals throughout Oregon."

 

[Sam7sf]

That state is dead to me.

I’ll probably have to go pick up a car once my old man passes but that’s my only reason I’d ever set foot back there.

 

[Sasquatch]

That state is dead to me.

I’ll probably have to go pick up a car once my old man passes but that’s my only reason I’d ever set foot back there.

Same. If & when my mom dies, that's about the only reason to visit. Outside that - Idaho is as far west as I'll go.

 

[innominate]

Too bad. They brew some good beer up there.

 

[DougC]

This story continues with good news...sort of. And lots of bad outcomes. [There] has been an explosion in the number of residents purchasing firearms ahead of the measure’s “permit-to-purchase” requirement taking effect.

That would be good news for FFL dealers as long as their inventory lasts. Nationwide there were lots of shortages during worst of virus crisis in 2020-21. This has the potential to be even worst in OR." What happens when you need a permit to buy a gun and no permits are being issued? Gun sales stop completely."

The criminal sales will continue and I would guess price per unit will go up for various reasons.

I wonder if some of increase in gun sales were by responsible legal gun owners who didn't vote against the law. When it passed, oops!, better get a gun before the law becomes effective. And the effective date is up in the air as this article describes the situation. Whatever date it becomes effective FFL dealers will run out of inventory before then if the surge continues.

 

[bbbass]

@Sasquatch

Did you notice that OR voters passed the initiative that changes the OR constitution so that if a legislator has 10 absences, they cannot serve in the next session? .... thereby eliminating the walkouts that stopped a bunch of draconian measures the were being forced down out throats w/o any kind of hearings or public comment/involvement.

 

[DougC]

@Sasquatch

Did you notice that OR voters passed the initiative that changes the OR constitution so that if a legislator has 10 absences, they cannot serve in the next session? .... thereby eliminating the walkouts that stopped a bunch of draconian measures the were being forced down out throats w/o any kind of hearings or public comment/involvement.

No I did not.

BTW: for the political junkies (like me) I wondered how measure got in front of voters in the first place. Ballotpedia explained it this way:

In Oregon, the number of signatures required to qualify an initiated state statute for the ballot is equal to 6 percent of the votes cast for governor in the most recent gubernatorial election....

• On July 18, the secretary of state reported that the petition contained 131,671 valid signatures of the 160,498 total number of signatures submitted, including the initial sponsorship signatures, for a verification rate of 82.04%.[17]

And if you follow the $$$$ those supporting the measure raised in total contributions $2.9 millions vs. Opposed $173K resulted in 1.4% difference in win/lose. Just 27K votes made the difference.

 

[bbbass]

No I did not.

BTW: for the political junkies (like me) I wondered how measure got in front of voters in the first place. Ballotpedia explained it this way:

In Oregon, the number of signatures required to qualify an initiated state statute for the ballot is equal to 6 percent of the votes cast for governor in the most recent gubernatorial election....

• On July 18, the secretary of state reported that the petition contained 131,671 valid signatures of the 160,498 total number of signatures submitted, including the initial sponsorship signatures, for a verification rate of 82.04%.[17]

And if you follow the $$$$ those supporting the measure raised in total contributions $2.9 millions vs. Opposed $173K resulted in 1.4% difference in win/lose. Just 27K votes made the difference.

It's not surprising that LEVO (Lift Every Voice Oregon, Rev Knudsen's activist church group) was able to gather enough signatures to get the initiative on the ballot considering the recent hyper-dramatized media exposure of mass shootings plus all the gang related firearms crime in Portland and Salem. These mismanaged areas where the Soros backed DA, Mike Schmidt, believes in letting crims go free to wreak ever more havoc are the same areas that liberal whimp/snowflake anti-gun gun hating voters are bombarded with all the hype and bad news. So it wasn't hard to find vote gatherers to work at getting enough signatures. I'm not sure what the number needed was, but I remember them saying it was something like 150K. Not hard to find 150k rabid anti-gunners in the I-5 corridor.

The monetary amounts you mention show that the gun supporters here are rudiculously bad at attracting money for the cause, and that the national anti-gun forces are pretty much rich elitists who stood to gain by the precedent this law sets..

One of the other problems is a voting population today that really does not dig into things and votes feeling based on sound bites and slogans. I mean permits to buy a gun in this climate of gun violence doesn't sound like a bad idea right? They just don't think about it in any depth.

A sponsor of the initiative even admits that it won't do anything to stop violence with guns, but "it's a start". Yeah, they got more plans. Won't be long before OR is just like Britain... you can have a gun if you pay and jump thru the hoops, but you have to store it in a facility and only take it out to use at a club/range.

I'm betting ammo restrictions are next... they already tried to pass a "1 box a month" purchase limit that was only defeated by walkout, and now they have effectively stopped walkouts.

 

[bbbass]

Another issue is that the OR Constitution specifies that ea measure shall have only ONE subject. This initiative addressed both permitting AND banned standard capacity mags. Clearly it should have been rejected by the Secretary of State of Oregon, just like before, but he let it slide. Making it a future Oregon Supreme Court challenge in the offing. But such things take awhile to work their way thru the system. Meanwhile.....

 

[DougC]

More from Bearing Arms blog: Oregon State Sheriffs' Association: "As of the date [Measure 114] goes into effect we believe that all firearms sales by dealers, at gun shows and most private transfers (other than to a close relative) in Oregon will immediately stop."