Traffic Stop Story - Happy Ending

[40Arpent]

(not THAT kind of "happy ending"...LOL)

A couple weeks ago, I had driven to Louisiana and was pulled over for speeding just across the state line around 10pm. The very young, very courteous officer asks me for insurance and DL, so I provide that plus my CHL. He then asked me if I am carrying, and I tell him “Yes, on my person.” He then asks if there are any other guns in my truck, so I tell him “Yep, a handgun in the glovebox, a handgun in the center console, 2 rifles and a shotgun in cases on the back floor, and a handgun and rifle under the backseat.” Long story short, he had me get out of the truck, politely disarmed me, and collected the pistols from the glovebox and console. He took those 3 handguns with him to the tailgate of my truck, unloaded them and the spare mags, and ran the SN’s. When he was satisfied that none were stolen or otherwise “illegal”, he returned my pistols to the truck cab, and bid farewell without a speeding ticket…oh, and a door pocket full of magazines and loose ammo (LOL). His final words to me were “Now, I hope you sit here for a minute and load your guns back up, because I support the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Amendment and like to see people exercising that right.”

My CHL hadn't saved me from speeding tickets on my two previous stops (like it had numerous times before that), so it was a relief this time. LOL

 

[Lucas Mccain]

Does he have the right to run the SN's if your not suspected of anything? I didn't think he was able to do that without a warrent or probable cause.

 

[40Arpent]

Does he have the right to run the SN's if your not suspected of anything? I didn't think he was able to do that without a warrent or probable cause.

Good question, and I do not know the answer. I admit that I wondered the same thing during and after the stop, but, and maybe this was a mistake on my part, everything about this cop and the way he went about things made me feel very comfortable with letting him proceed according to what he said was "his department's policy." More than once, he apologetically explained it was policy, and that he fully supported my 2A right to carry.

Two of the handguns were purchased brand new by me, but one was purchased from a good friend of mine. When the cop was running the SN's, I joked with my GF that "I hope John didn't steal that damn Sig!" LOL

I expected your question and similar comments to come up when I posted this, so I welcome the exchange of opinions and/or facts.

 

[MPA1988]

(not THAT kind of "happy ending"...LOL)

A couple weeks ago, I had driven to Louisiana and was pulled over for speeding just across the state line around 10pm. The very young, very courteous officer asks me for insurance and DL, so I provide that plus my CHL. He then asked me if I am carrying, and I tell him “Yes, on my person.” He then asks if there are any other guns in my truck, so I tell him “Yep, a handgun in the glovebox, a handgun in the center console, 2 rifles and a shotgun in cases on the back floor, and a handgun and rifle under the backseat.” Long story short, he had me get out of the truck, politely disarmed me, and collected the pistols from the glovebox and console. He took those 3 handguns with him to the tailgate of my truck, unloaded them and the spare mags, and ran the SN’s. When he was satisfied that none were stolen or otherwise “illegal”, he returned my pistols to the truck cab, and bid farewell without a speeding ticket…oh, and a door pocket full of magazines and loose ammo (LOL). His final words to me were “Now, I hope you sit here for a minute and load your guns back up, because I support the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Amendment and like to see people exercising that right.”

My CHL hadn't saved me from speeding tickets on my two previous stops (like it had numerous times before that), so it was a relief this time. LOL

Although you were able to "beat the ticket", allow me to give you my opinion as to what transpired. Because you had such a large collection of firearms and ammunition in your vehicle, which to a reasonable person is unusual, the LEO could establish PC (probable cause) to check out the firearms and run the SNs. In other words, a large collection of firearms as you described is not "usual" and "reasonable" and does potentially suggest wrongdoing. Although it is your right to "arm your vehicle" with as many lawful firearms as you choose, be prepared to have this scenario repeated because it is not the "norm".

Just thought of another issue. Were all the firearms concealed, in that they were not in plain view? If so, you could have denied there were any other firearms and he would not have had the authority to search the vehicle, without a warrant (unless of course there was other contraband in plain view). Although some may still consider it borderline that he did gather your firearms and "run" the SNs, the fact is you did admit to all these other firearms in your vehicle along with the spare ammo. Just a thought.

Keep in mind, as a private citizen you can ask for an LEOs supervisor to report to the scene if you feel your rights are being violated. You can also note the LEOs badge number and file a complaint if you think you are a victim of an unreasonable search.

 

[BG1960]

If that's the case, I find it odd that he didn't run the long guns too. His dept policy only cares about stolen handguns???

 

[MPA1988]

For me, the "department policy" line was BS. It appears from what the OP has described, this LEO once presented with the CHL had an ax to grind. For me, I would have just written the ticket and said "have a nice day". Collecting the firearms in the possession of a CHLer and running the SNs was the behavior of a "1%er".

 

[matefrio]

He was fishing. And got your permission to search the car.

 

[MPA1988]

He was fishing. And got your permission to search the car.

Just where did the OP say he gave the LEO permission to search the vehicle?


The fact the OP did not give permission, at least from what he posted, is what makes this "gathering of firearms" problematic in my opinion. Although as I have said, it is "unusual" to be transporting this much fire power.

 

[matefrio]

Just where did the OP say he gave the LEO permission to search the vehicle?


The fact the OP did not give permission, at least from what he posted, is what makes this "gathering of firearms" problematic in my opinion. Although as I have said, it is "unusual" to be transporting this much fire power.

He hasn't, yet. I can almost guarantee at some point the officer asked permission to retrieve the guns though. I'll pay pall you $5 if I'm wrong.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Good story Pete!

 

[40Arpent]

Good story Pete!

Thanks Cam.

 

[40Arpent]

If that's the case, I find it odd that he didn't run the long guns too. His dept policy only cares about stolen handguns???

He took a representative sample? LOL

 

[Mreed911]

When asked to exit, get out, lock the doors and put the keys in your pocket. Then there's no question that they're going to have to ask, and you get to say "no." That effectively defeats the "Terry" requirements since you've been separated from your vehicle, it contents, etc. and they're no longer accessible to you.

Personally, I've never been asked to exit my vehicle by anyone other than a state trooper, and even then, I wasn't disarmed. City/County police, on the rare occasion of a traffic stop, have simply noted my CHL and asked me to not make any strange movements during the stop.

 

[40Arpent]

He was fishing. And got your permission to search the car.

I can almost guarantee at some point the officer asked permission to retrieve the guns though.

My GF opened the center console for him, lifted out the tray, and he reached in and got pistol #2. He then went around to the passenger side, and my GF opened the glovebox for him, and he reached in and got pistol #3. He never opened either of the back doors, nor did he shine a light through the rear door windows.

 

[Mreed911]

My GF opened the center console for him, lifted out the tray, and he reached in and got pistol #2. He then went around to the passenger side, and my GF opened the glovebox for him, and he reached in and got pistol #3. He never opened either of the back doors, nor did he shine a light through the rear door windows.

That's a rather important piece of the story... another occupant in the vehicle with access to the weapons. It changes things a little bit w.r.t. Terry.

 

[matefrio]

How to Flex Your Rights During Police Encounters videos and information there.

 

[matefrio]

My GF opened the center console for him, lifted out the tray, and he reached in and got pistol #2. He then went around to the passenger side, and my GF opened the glovebox for him, and he reached in and got pistol #3. He never opened either of the back doors, nor did he shine a light through the rear door windows.

MPA1988 your call, do I owe you $5.00? If you think I do pm me with the address to send the funds to.

 

[Wiliamr]

You say "across the state line" Were you in Texas or Lousianna. Over there they are under "French common law" (Napolean ic Code) for their state law base. Things are a mite different than the other states. I found that out while on a trip to New Orleans, lucky for me I was not arrested, but according to the state trooper and the city officer, you have to prove innocence not assumed innocence. I am not on the Bar of that state so not certain, never looked, but I respect three folks with guns and badges right or wrong./

 

[40Arpent]

You say "across the state line" Were you in Texas or Lousianna.

Sorry for lack of clarity...I was in Louisiana, and it was a city cop.

 

[Mreed911]

You say "across the state line" Were you in Texas or Lousianna. Over there they are under "French common law" (Napolean ic Code) for their state law base. Things are a mite different than the other states. I found that out while on a trip to New Orleans, lucky for me I was not arrested, but according to the state trooper and the city officer, you have to prove innocence not assumed innocence. I am not on the Bar of that state so not certain, never looked, but I respect three folks with guns and badges right or wrong./

Absolutely not, that would be a direct violation of your Constitutional rights according to Coffin. As to the Napoleonic Code myth, check out snopes...