Ukraine War and Politics

[zackmars]

Everythjng can be justified one way or another. Even if the justification is just profit. Whether or not anyone agrees with the justification is a different story.

Big difference between "hey that country is screwing over this country"

And

"Hey lets invade this little guy because he might join NATO, that way we can double the number of NATO states on our border"

Even if you want to paint Korea and VN in a similar light to what Russia is doing, I'd say trying to prevent Russian funded communist invasions (and the inevitable genocides that always follow) is about as righteous as it gets.

Russia has huffed too much of it's own glue. They think their hands are rated E for everyone, yet after 2 years they're further away from their goals than they were at day 1 of their war, and they had their most elite division get decimated by militas and reservists

 

[Dakar34]

Col Douglas MacGregor on Ukraine

 

[CavCop]

Do

Big difference between "hey that country is screwing over this country"

And

"Hey lets invade this little guy because he might join NATO, that way we can double the number of NATO states on our border"

Even if you want to paint Korea and VN in a similar light to what Russia is doing, I'd say trying to prevent Russian funded communist invasions (and the inevitable genocides that always follow) is about as righteous as it gets.

Russia has huffed too much of its own glue. They think their hands are rated E for everyone, yet after 2 years they're further away from their goals than they were at day 1 of their war, and they had their most elite division get decimated by militas and reservists

Do you think that NATO really wanted to admit a corrupt country like Ukraine? I mean Ukraine is well known for its corruption. They were rejected many times. But it’s a carrot to put in front of Ukraine and cause a war with Russia.

America is known for starting wars. For causing wars. Ukraine is a piggy bank and was used like bait by America/Democrats.

Dead Ukrainians make set people in America rich.

NATO could bring in Ukraine anytime they want, and start a nuclear war with Russia. What is NATO waiting for, bring in the corrupt Ukraine and ignore the requirements to join NATO. Who cares about rules, requirements, or regulations in these modern times???

 

[zackmars]

Do

Do you think that NATO really wanted to admit a corrupt country like Ukraine? I mean Ukraine is well known for its corruption. They were rejected many times. But it’s a carrot to put in front of Ukraine and cause a war with Russia.

America is known for starting wars. For causing wars. Ukraine is a piggy bank and was used like bait by America/Democrats.

Dead Ukrainians make set people in America rich.

NATO could bring in Ukraine anytime they want, and start a nuclear war with Russia. What is NATO waiting for, bring in the corrupt Ukraine and ignore the requirements to join NATO. Who cares about rules, requirements, or regulations in these modern times???

Everyone is corrupt. Seriously everybody is so corrupt that Gary Oldman is the only one that can explain it



Russia caused the war. Not Ukraine. Not America. Not Finland. Not Poland. Russia.

It's easy to not care when Russia is killing you and the thin lifeline NATO dribbles out to you is all thats keeping you afloat. You bet your ass if i were in that situation, I'd be fighting tooth and nail to join the only organization that has given half a damn

Eta "america is known for starting wars" that line is almost exclusively parroted by ungrateful Europeans, liberals, or people who spend too much time reading nonsense from RT, AlJeazera, etc

 

[zackmars]

Russian troops looking at Ukraine, 2014

 

[popper]

"america is known for starting wars" Total BS! Have US politicians gotten involved when they should SHUT UP? Yup. Has the US supported regimes that turn out to be the 'wrong' side? Yup.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Tell me again how this is OK?



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[Havok1]

Everyone is corrupt. Seriously everybody is so corrupt that Gary Oldman is the only one that can explain it



Russia caused the war. Not Ukraine. Not America. Not Finland. Not Poland. Russia.

It's easy to not care when Russia is killing you and the thin lifeline NATO dribbles out to you is all thats keeping you afloat. You bet your ass if i were in that situation, I'd be fighting tooth and nail to join the only organization that has given half a damn

Eta "america is known for starting wars" that line is almost exclusively parroted by ungrateful Europeans, liberals, or people who spend too much time reading nonsense from RT, AlJeazera, etc

Were you ever in the US military? Why didn’t you go join the Ukrainian foreign legion? Interesting how after more than 2 years you enter this thread and are suddenly so passionate about it, and so confident in your knowledge for a guy who until yesterday didn’t even realize Russia already borders nato.

 

[zackmars]

Were you ever in the US military? Why didn’t you go join the Ukrainian foreign legion? Interesting how after more than 2 years you enter this thread and are suddenly so passionate about it, and so confident in your knowledge for a guy who until yesterday didn’t even realize Russia already borders nato.

I don't think they have any place for a type 1 diabetic. And no i wasn't in the military. Never claimed to be.

Also, I'm pretty sure i posted in this thread awhile ago (eta, similar threads, not this one) not that i need your permission to post in a public thread, in a public forum.


I've known Russia borders nato for quite awhile. Does Russia know? They're the ones who beat the war drums every time one of their former satellites even looks westward.

Why don't you go help Russia? Maybe if they don't give you the Russell Bentley treatment right off the bat, you might realize that Russia is not our friend.

The same people who founded what would become antifa, the same people who founded american LGBT and black power movements are still flying hammer and sickle flags on their tanks and plate carriers

"But muh ukraine is corrupt!!1!"

 

[Havok1]

I don't think they have any place for a type 1 diabetic. And no i wasn't in the military. Never claimed to be.

Also, I'm pretty sure i posted in this thread awhile ago (eta, similar threads, not this one) not that i need your permission to post in a public thread, in a public forum.


I've known Russia borders nato for quite awhile. Does Russia know? They're the ones who beat the war drums every time one of their former satellites even looks westward.

Why don't you go help Russia? Maybe if they don't give you the Russell Bentley treatment right off the bat, you might realize that Russia is not our friend.

The same people who founded what would become antifa, the same people who founded american LGBT and black power movements are still flying hammer and sickle flags on their tanks and plate carriers

View attachment 449345 View attachment 449346 View attachment 449347

"But muh ukraine is corrupt!!1!"

No, you didn’t say that you were in the military. Just noting that it continues to be the people who were never in the military, that are the strongest proponents of US involvement in other countries. So when you make the comments about who it is that says the US is known for starting wars, you fail to understand that a lot of the people who talk about that are actually veterans of those wars.

Also I would love for you to explain why you think I would ever help Russia, or where I have said they are our friend. Recognizing this proxy war for what it is doesn’t mean I think they are our friend. interesting how the couple of you supporting the proxy war, repeating the same failed narratives over and over can only think that you are either in favor of the proxy war or you support Russia.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Do

Do you think that NATO really wanted to admit a corrupt country like Ukraine? I mean Ukraine is well known for its corruption. They were rejected many times. But it’s a carrot to put in front of Ukraine and cause a war with Russia.

America is known for starting wars. For causing wars. Ukraine is a piggy bank and was used like bait by America/Democrats.

Dead Ukrainians make set people in America rich.

NATO could bring in Ukraine anytime they want, and start a nuclear war with Russia. What is NATO waiting for, bring in the corrupt Ukraine and ignore the requirements to join NATO. Who cares about rules, requirements, or regulations in these modern times???

Was known

It WAS known for corruption because of the legacy of the russians/soviets, along with the rest of the former soviet states, but it changed in a big way in 2014 even with FJB's attempt to further it.

Ukraine today is not any more currupt than anywhere else. While no corruption is acceptable, Ukraine is certainly no worse than the USA.

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[cycleguy2300]

I don't think they have any place for a type 1 diabetic. And no i wasn't in the military. Never claimed to be.

Also, I'm pretty sure i posted in this thread awhile ago (eta, similar threads, not this one) not that i need your permission to post in a public thread, in a public forum.


I've known Russia borders nato for quite awhile. Does Russia know? They're the ones who beat the war drums every time one of their former satellites even looks westward.

Why don't you go help Russia? Maybe if they don't give you the Russell Bentley treatment right off the bat, you might realize that Russia is not our friend.

The same people who founded what would become antifa, the same people who founded american LGBT and black power movements are still flying hammer and sickle flags on their tanks and plate carriers

View attachment 449345 View attachment 449346 View attachment 449347

"But muh ukraine is corrupt!!1!"

Warthog Defence is a Ukrainian group, but this short video about the russian command and how their jealousy of Prigozhin lead Ivanov and Tsalikov to fabricate shortages to push him to mutiny so they could scoop up his various holdings and investments, lead to the discovery of their corruption.

***

They were setting up MOD building contracts, with a 20% down-payment*, pocketing the remainder, promising payment upon completion, then at the final stages of work kicking them off the job to hire another contractor to finish the last 10%* of work

*Warthog gave these numbers, but its probably representative/rounded) so they pay 30% of the project price and pocket 70%...

***

They were selling Nuclear secrets too it seems in addition to the rest of the corruption.

All under Shoigu's leadership...

***

Warthog Defence isn't a neutral observer, but they have been a good source of information and pretty reliable so, given their history and that the story explains Prigozhin's behaviors and fits with what Prigozhin was saying so well it leads me to believe the story.

Even if only half true, I dont think any of the three will be around very long... time will tell.



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[cycleguy2300]

No, you didn’t say that you were in the military. Just noting that it continues to be the people who were never in the military, that are the strongest proponents of US involvement in other countries. So when you make the comments about who it is that says the US is known for starting wars, you fail to understand that a lot of the people who talk about that are actually veterans of those wars.

Also I would love for you to explain why you think I would ever help Russia, or where I have said they are our friend. Recognizing this proxy war for what it is doesn’t mean I think they are our friend. interesting how the couple of you supporting the proxy war, repeating the same failed narratives over and over can only think that you are either in favor of the proxy war or you support Russia.

Dude...

TONS of US (and other nations) retired mil in Ukraine, officers and enlisted, grunts and POGs...

I'm sorry they didnt tell you they were going first and I'm sorry no one had you review their plan for victory either, but I dont know how much stronger of a proponent for direct action you can be than going yourself and slotting floppies.



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[Johnny Diamond]

I don't think they have any place for a type 1 diabetic. And no i wasn't in the military. Never claimed to be.

Also, I'm pretty sure i posted in this thread awhile ago (eta, similar threads, not this one) not that i need your permission to post in a public thread, in a public forum.


I've known Russia borders nato for quite awhile. Does Russia know? They're the ones who beat the war drums every time one of their former satellites even looks westward.

Why don't you go help Russia? Maybe if they don't give you the Russell Bentley treatment right off the bat, you might realize that Russia is not our friend.

The same people who founded what would become antifa, the same people who founded american LGBT and black power movements are still flying hammer and sickle flags on their tanks and plate carriers

View attachment 449345 View attachment 449346 View attachment 449347

"But muh ukraine is corrupt!!1!"

Well said sir, he (I think it was him don't care enough to check) attacked me sometime ago,in a similar fashion. Tried to say I hadn't contributed to thread and had no right to have an opinion. Reminded of the fact I made several comments one being about the Sudetenland 1939...as well as the fact that I was infact a vet and claimed the of both facts as my ability to have an opinion and post it. Funny that @Havok1 would ask if you ever served?

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[Havok1]

Dude...

TONS of US (and other nations) retired mil in Ukraine, officers and enlisted, grunts and POGs...

I'm sorry they didnt tell you they were going first and I'm sorry no one had you review their plan for victory either, but I dont know how much stronger of a proponent for direct action you can be than going yourself and slotting floppies.



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You’re sorry who didn’t tell me what first? The fact that you think me being given a plan for victory is required for them to have a plan is just more of your ignorance. Our government not having a follow through beyond spend more money is the norm. It’s not unique to Ukraine. On our end, the only significance to that is that it’s a waste of time and money. Ukraine can’t say the same. Perhaps you think that our military and intel agencies that are working with Ukraine should check social media to get an idea of what is going on over there though. lol.

 

[zackmars]

No, you didn’t say that you were in the military. Just noting that it continues to be the people who were never in the military, that are the strongest proponents of US involvement in other countries. So when you make the comments about who it is that says the US is known for starting wars, you fail to understand that a lot of the people who talk about that are actually veterans of those wars.

Also I would love for you to explain why you think I would ever help Russia, or where I have said they are our friend. Recognizing this proxy war for what it is doesn’t mean I think they are our friend. interesting how the couple of you supporting the proxy war, repeating the same failed narratives over and over can only think that you are either in favor of the proxy war or you support Russia.

"Us involvement" which asiside from volunteers, has been totally in the form of money and weaponry

"I would love for you to explain why you think i would ever help Russia" well, how many posts do you have in this thread? Don't get all butthurt now that I'm asking the same loaded questions you've been asking.

"Failed narratives" like a failed airfield insertion? Like a failed armored push into your enemies capitol? Like sending loaded transports into active AA territory?

 

[cycleguy2300]

You’re sorry who didn’t tell me what first? The fact that you think me being given a plan for victory is required for them to have a plan is just more of your ignorance.

You were lamenting that no one had told you their plans just a few days ago...

QUOTE="Havok1, post: 3087166, member: 40867"]Our government not having a follow through beyond spend more money is the norm. It’s not unique to Ukraine. On our end, the only significance to that is that it’s a waste of time and money.[/Quote]
Again, just because you are not privy to something doesnt mean its not happening. Only minutes ago you had to be informed there were many, many US military folks on the front lines supporting Ukraine. Repeatedly you spread lies and falsehoods or misrepresent facts.

QUOTE="Havok1, post: 3087166, member: 40867"]Perhaps you think that our military and intel agencies that are working with Ukraine should check social media to get an idea of what is going on over there though. lol.[/QUOTE]

What are you talking about? There is lots of good intel on social media, I frequently use OSINT for police work. Soldiers in the era of social media often over share and because russia invaded and occupies populated areas, there are lots of eyes, ears and cellphone cameras to capture what is happening in real time.

Remember when yall claimed the attack on the Minsk and Rostov-on-Don were faked?

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[Havok1]

"Us involvement" which asiside from volunteers, has been totally in the form of money and weaponry

"I would love for you to explain why you think i would ever help Russia" well, how many posts do you have in this thread? Don't get all butthurt now that I'm asking the same loaded questions you've been asking.

"Failed narratives" like a failed airfield insertion? Like a failed armored push into your enemies capitol? Like sending loaded transports into active AA territory?

So still no examples for why you think I would help Russia, other than it being a random comment to someone who disagrees with you.

You still ignore than despite all the money we have sent to Ukraine they have been unable to take back their land, and are struggling with personnel.

 

[cycleguy2300]

So still no examples for why you think I would help Russia, other than it being a random comment to someone who disagrees with you.

You still ignore than despite all the money we have sent to Ukraine they have been unable to take back their land, and are struggling with personnel.

Was the russian invasion of Ukriane wrong?

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[Eastexasrick]

Recognizing this proxy war for what it is doesn’t mean I think they are our friend. interesting how the couple of you supporting the proxy war, repeating the same failed narratives over and over can only think that you are either in favor of the proxy war or you support Russia.