Ukraine War and Politics

[Havok1]

Two totally different things.... Ukriane isnt the terrorists. Ukraine (like Israel) is fighting terrorists. Its odd you attempted to equate Ukraine and hamas when it would have been just as effective to use another less biasing example, but we know (but don't understand why) you suport russia and attempt to discredting and use biased language against Ukraine at every opportunity.

But it is absolutely a key fact that the money stays in the USA, is going to a known place for a known, defined product. If the real or market values for inputs and outputs are known you can't launder money... is why FHB's paintings were perfect for laundering money becase art doesn't have a value that is defined by inputs like an artillery shell.

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It doesn’t matter who is who. I didn’t equate Ukraine to terrorists, I equated two situations where there are second order effects of the money being spent that the people spending the money, and the people supporting the proxy war are downplaying.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Also, one of the major criticisms of borrowing billions for war funding is that it’s simply intended to funnel money into the military industrial complex. Not to mention that the massive deficits are inflationary.

My wife doesn't like when I spend money on ammo (or the rare gun)... but as I explain to her it is necessary at times, even if I have to work OT to do it.

Part of the reason I'd prefer one big push to fund/supply Ukraine is it would cost less in the long run and prevent a vomfort developing in the perpetual funding of the MIC and the resulting reliance on it for votes and livelihoods.

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[cycleguy2300]

It doesn’t matter who is who. I didn’t equate Ukraine to terrorists, I equated two situations where there are second order effects of the money being spent that the people spending the money, and the people supporting the proxy war are downplaying.

"Havok1 does XYZ , just like hamas" IS biasing, even if XYZ is "used good OPSEC" and not something rather naughty.

Words matter and I dont think you did it innocently.

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[cycleguy2300]

Georgia tried to pass some opressive laws and like Maidan protests, there are masses of people protesting to protect their rights and there was a "brawl" IN parliament by the MOPs themselves over the bill.

Georgia has tried to throw off the soviet legacy and was "protected" from bying free by russia who went in with the military...

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[Havok1]

My wife doesn't like when I spend money on ammo (or the rare gun)... but as I explain to her it is necessary at times, even if I have to work OT to do it.

Part of the reason I'd prefer one big push to fund/supply Ukraine is it would cost less in the long run and prevent a vomfort developing in the perpetual funding of the MIC and the resulting reliance on it for votes and livelihoods.

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We are already there. We have actually been there since before this proxy war started.

"Havok1 does XYZ , just like hamas" IS biasing, even if XYZ is "used good OPSEC" and not something rather naughty.

Words matter and I dont think you did it innocently.

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You’re reaching pretty far here. Hamas eats food. I eat food. You also eat food. That doesn’t make eating food bad. It also doesn’t make Hamas good because they do somethjng that we do. You’re also misunderstanding everything I said as usual. I wasn’t equating Ukraine to Hamas. I was equating two situations where OUR GOVERNMENT is spending money and the end result of that money is money/equipment going somewhere other than where they said.

 

[cycleguy2300]

We are already there. We have actually been there since before this proxy war started.

You’re reaching pretty far here. Hamas eats food. I eat food. You also eat food. That doesn’t make eating food bad. It also doesn’t make Hamas good because they do somethjng that we do. You’re also misunderstanding everything I said as usual. I wasn’t equating Ukraine to Hamas. I was equating two situations where OUR GOVERNMENT is spending money and the end result of that money is money/equipment going somewhere other than where they said.

What proxy war? Using silly words to bias the conversation about the russian invasion of Ukriane does nothing but cloud the discussion.

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[Havok1]

What proxy war? Using silly words to bias the conversation about the russian invasion of Ukriane does nothing but cloud the discussion.

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Given which thread I am posting in, I’m sure you know which one I’m talking about. Although I suppose you can take your pick if it makes you feel better about this one.

 

[cycleguy2300]

We are already there. We have actually been there since before this proxy war started.

You’re reaching pretty far here. Hamas eats food. I eat food. You also eat food. That doesn’t make eating food bad. It also doesn’t make Hamas good because they do somethjng that we do. You’re also misunderstanding everything I said as usual. I wasn’t equating Ukraine to Hamas. I was equating two situations where OUR GOVERNMENT is spending money and the end result of that money is money/equipment going somewhere other than where they said.

You used biased language to manipulate the conversation, just like the NAZIs did.

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[Havok1]

You used biased language to manipulate the conversation, just like the NAZIs did.

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The same could be said about the narrative that the money is being spent here, when the end result is still that we are spending the money for equipment that is leaving the country. plus, the money that we are using to pay the salaries and pensions of the Ukrainian government is probably not being spent here. Regardless, being spent here doesn’t make bad spending better.

 

[studenygreg]

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[cycleguy2300]

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"Ukraine is corrupt..."
"The western leaders want to go to war..."
"Putin tried to avoid the war..."
"Ukraine neo-nazis..."
"The US prevented peace talks..."
"Invaded with 40,000..."
"Not trying to take over Ukraine..."
Each are russian propaganda talking points (even if they contradict domestic and other statements)

The facts:
putin alone wanted war with Ukraine

putin invaded with nearly 200,000 men

russia absolutely attempted to capture Kyiv to seize the seat of government to either install a puppet or to end hostilities so they could occupy the rest of the country easier. russia wanted and wants the entire nation and idea of Ukrainian independence destroyed.

Ukraine has no more of a neo-nazi problem than the USA... (and much less of a problem than russia itself)

russia never wanted Ukraine at any bargaining table, they want Ukraine subjugating.

Gorbachev says NATO never agreed to not expand towards russia

Pretty sure Ukraine not wanting to agree to a russian backed treaty doesn't justify an invasion...

Gaza happened because of the US? WTF, hamas has been murdering jews since before we invaded iraq...

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[studenygreg]

"Ukraine is corrupt..."
"The western leaders want to go to war..."
"Putin tried to avoid the war..."
"Ukraine neo-nazis..."
"The US prevented peace talks..."
"Invaded with 40,000..."
"Not trying to take over Ukraine..."
Each are russian propaganda talking points (even if they contradict domestic and other statements)

The facts:
putin alone wanted war with Ukraine

putin invaded with nearly 200,000 men

russia absolutely attempted to capture Kyiv to seize the seat of government to either install a puppet or to end hostilities so they could occupy the rest of the country easier. russia wanted and wants the entire nation and idea of Ukrainian independence destroyed.

Ukraine has no more of a neo-nazi problem than the USA... (and much less of a problem than russia itself)

russia never wanted Ukraine at any bargaining table, they want Ukraine subjugating.

Gorbachev says NATO never agreed to not expand towards russia

Pretty sure Ukraine not wanting to agree to a russian backed treaty doesn't justify an invasion...

Gaza happened because of the US? WTF, hamas has been murdering jews since before we invaded iraq...

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You should copy that in the video comments.

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[Havok1]

Gaza happened because of the US? WTF, hamas has been murdering jews since before we invaded iraq...

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probably referring to Bidens handlers removing effective sanctions against Iran.

 

[cycleguy2300]

"But Europe needs to give more"



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[Dakar34]

Someone likes to cherry pick data (“what country gave the most hand grenades to Ukraine?”) and makes up their own definitions for words (“WW2 was a proxy war but Ukraine is not”). One wonders if they have a financial interest at stake.

 

[leVieux]

<>

We must look beyond the particulars of this current ‘’crisis’’ of the Russo-Ukrainian War, to consider the BIG picture.

This issue is now being used to bleed our Nation and enslave our descendants.

Our first DUTY is to protect OUR OWN CHILDREN & GRANDCHILDREN, and to do what we can to insure they inherit a sound Republic.

But, we are being led around by the nose on this divisive and weakening issue.

Demand that our government protect the USA first & foremost !

leVieux

<>

 

[Havok1]

So we are expected to believe that the amount of tanks provided is how we should measure who is providing enough aid? Pretty sure Poland stopped arming Ukraine like a year ago because they saw the war for what it is, and basically nobody noticed if they weren’t told about it.

Personally, I couldn’t care less how much money Europe is spending on the proxy war. Much of Europe doesn’t believe the narratives being pushed here any more than I do.

Also, like many of the other IG posts that get shared on here, the comments are great!

 

[cycleguy2300]

Someone likes to cherry pick data (“what country gave the most hand grenades to Ukraine?”) and makes up their own definitions for words (“WW2 was a proxy war but Ukraine is not”). One wonders if they have a financial interest at stake.

You and havok1 love to twist what the rest of us say... but it makes no more sense to refer to the russian invasion of Ukriane as "the proxy war" than it does to call the 1939 German invasion of Poland a proxy war because a conglomeration of states came to their aid.

The left loves to use terms that start out as technically correct, but add so much baggage that the phrase is no longer accurate. When the left uses "gender identity" they have added to the definition that its fliud, a spectrum and anyone can be anything, when that really should be called "gender dysphoria", but as is the case in Ukraine there is a need to manipulate terms to bias the argument, because they otherwise dont have a leg to stand on.

russian proxies like to use "proxy war" because it furthers their lies about the west being responsible for russia invading a sovereign nation who was no threat to russia. Typical abuser behavior trying to shift blame to the victim. "I only hit him because he tried to call the cops"...

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[Havok1]

You and havok1 love to twist what the rest of us say... but it makes no more sense to refer to the russian invasion of Ukriane as "the proxy war" than it does to call the 1939 German invasion of Poland a proxy war because a conglomeration of states came to their aid.

The left loves to use terms that start out as technically correct, but add so much baggage that the phrase is no longer accurate. When the left uses "gender identity" they have added to the definition that its fliud, a spectrum and anyone can be anything, when that really should be called "gender dysphoria", but as is the case in Ukraine there is a need to manipulate terms to bias the argument, because they otherwise dont have a leg to stand on.

russian proxies like to use "proxy war" because it furthers their lies about the west being responsible for russia invading a sovereign nation who was no threat to russia. Typical abuser behavior trying to shift blame to the victim. "I only hit him because he tried to call the cops"...

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What do you mean “the rest of us”? It’s like you and one other person arguing in favor of the proxy war. I love how you skipped right over the fact that the information in your unpopular video was basically worthless in pushing your narrative, and went straight to attacking that this is properly being labeled as a proxy war, not just by me, but those commenting on your video, and basically everyone who knows anything about this war. It’s a proxy war. Its always been a proxy war, and it will always be a proxy war. I’m sorry that you didn’t know enough to see it for what it is when you were convinced it would be cool to go all in on supporting it. It seems this is the only proxy war that you have an issue being labeled a proxy war.

 

[cycleguy2300]

What do you mean “the rest of us”? It’s like you and one other person arguing in favor of the proxy war. I love how you skipped right over the fact that the information in your unpopular video was basically worthless in pushing your narrative, and went straight to attacking that this is properly being labeled as a proxy war, not just by me, but those commenting on your video, and basically everyone who knows anything about this war. It’s a proxy war. Its always been a proxy war, and it will always be a proxy war. I’m sorry that you didn’t know enough to see it for what it is when you were convinced it would be cool to go all in on supporting it. It seems this is the only proxy war that you have an issue being labeled a proxy war.

You word twisting troll

Arguing that the russian invasion of Ukriane is unjustifiable and supporting Ukrainian self-defense isn't pro war. russia started the war, continues to attempt conquest, and can stop the war at a moment's notice.

There are generally a few archetypal positions on the war and only those that do not recognize the only agressor as the instigator are pro-war positions.

Why are you so against Ukrainians exercising their right to self-defense against an agressor nation?

What does popularity have to do with being right or wrong?

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