Campus carry syllabus post-SB-11

[satx78247]

TexasProf,

I'm sure that you've heard the old story about "the little boy that cried: WOLF". - IF you decide to call a LEO every time you think that a person on campus is wearing a handgun concealed (I suspect that many CHL holders, including grad students, staff & faculty, will come on campus carrying their lawful arms after the "campus carry date", including me, when I visit my daughter on "The 40 Acres".), I suspect that the university police will SOON identify you as "a LOON", who is also "a nervous Nellie" & thereafter will simply ignore your calls.
I also DOUBT that anyone will OPEN CARRY on any part of a college campus that appears to be "on campus".
Any places that are NOT obvious as "campus locations" (like offices in some commercial buildings & some leased parking lots) will have to be posted with OBVIOUS SIGNS that identify those areas that are "college-leased locations".
(IF I was the chief of the university/city police, I would say exactly that to any professor/staffer that asks for my opinion.)

Pardon my repeating myself: Say/write NOTHING whatever except that, "Our university fully supports the public laws of Texas, including the RIGHT of CHL licensees to wear arms in permitted areas of campus." & then "just hush".

just my OPINION, satx

 

[cbigclarke]

Go teach in Chicago. Guns are illegal there. Problem solved.

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[zincwarrior]

Important point about Jan 1. On that day, the border of campus becomes the end of OC in Texas. But that border is much more porous, poorly defined and difficult to identify than most people think. I think there's a very real possibility that somebody is going to accidentally OC right onto campus, or even right into a classroom. I don't think our University Counsel or Police chief has really thought about that, they certainly haven't said anything.

How do we alert people (especially non-chl) about the change of laws?

I take back what I said previously. I think you have no clue what you're talking about, nor are you really trying to learn. You may in fact be a troll on this forum.

Instead of researching what is done on campuses in states that already have this, and the actual law like a proper researcher or legal counsel would, you've gone off the deep end.

 

[cbigclarke]

I take back what I said previously. I think you have no clue what you're talking about, nor are you really trying to learn. You may in fact be a troll on this forum.

Instead of researching what is done on campuses in states that already have this, and the actual law like a proper researcher or legal counsel would, you've gone off the deep end.

Post #28

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[zincwarrior]

Indeed cbigclarke.

The school is going to set policy. That will be based on opinions from their counsel and potentially opinions from the Texas AG, etc. Its not going to be based on Feelz. While there may be some committee set up, the real decision will be made by the President (whatever term your school uses) and associate firms employed by the school for this matter (and/or their internal counsel depending on the size of the school).

Notations in the syllabus are frankly, stupid and inflammatory. Do you also put in qualifiers about potential natural disasters, terrorist attacks, acts of God and alien invasion? Quit focusing on the events that aren't going to happen or aren't an issue, especially as you have failed to properly research the topics.

EDIT: As a final note, if you really are a professor, take up the offers by others to take you shooting. When I was in undergrad in California, I took a professor and his son shooting. It was a fun experience for them, but I also taught them safety, and how to be more realistic and pragmatic about firearms. It wasn't being tacticool (one of the pistols I brought was a black powder ACW revolver), it was just fun. They learned not to be afraid of firearms, but to respect them.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Go teach in Chicago. Guns are illegal there. Problem solved.

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Not productive Clarke

ETA: or ZW

 

[peeps]

You brought up the point of "only 4 hours of class time" and making the assumption nobody could possibly grasp the extent of the laws governing the legal carry of a handgun. You're partially, perhaps even mostly, RIGHT. The truth is CHL holders will tend to spend a LOT of time outside of that course reviewing the laws, asking questions on forums such as this, some even retaining legal counsel to advise them (e.g. Texas Law Shield, a contributing sponsor of this website). Firearm advocates by and large know these laws more than any other law. There's dozens of people here who can recite large portions of section 411 of the Texas Government Code, but couldn't tell you squat about where it's legally permissible to make a U-turn on a roadway.

Bingo!

Indeed.

The school is going to set policy. That will be based on opinions from their counsel and potentially opinions from the Texas AG, etc. Its not going to be based on Feelz. While there may be some committee set up, the real decision will be made by the President (whatever term your school uses) and associate firms employed by the school for this matter (and/or their internal counsel depending on the size of the school).

Notations in the syllabus are frankly, stupid and inflammatory. Do you also put in qualifiers about potential natural disasters, terrorist attacks, acts of God and alien invasion? Quit focusing on the events that aren't going to happen or aren't an issue, especially as you have failed to properly research the topics.

Exactly, I see no reason to have each professor put rules and policies in every syllabus. That's asking for trouble in more ways than just in relation to firearms. Each student must receive rules and policies from a single source, the school handbook.

Now, if you're assigned to create language in the handbook, fine. But, it sounds like you're in a position to influence the notion of putting it in each syllabus - don't let them do it.

And also, as mentioned before, take the CHL course! You've been assigned to a "CC Task Force" but have no firearms experience..... I hope some on the task force do; otherwise, that says a lot about your school's leadership, too.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

.

 

[zincwarrior]

Bingo!

And also, as mentioned before, take the CHL course! You've been assigned to a "CC Task Force" but have no firearms experience..... I hope some on the task force do; otherwise, that says a lot about your school's leadership, too.

Even if you don't take the course there are a variety of manuals out there as well as the actual law as taught.

 

[Glockster69]

The Professor keeps circling back to ignoring the answers to his questions and proceeding as originally planned. Why ask in the first place, Sir?

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

The school administration should really bring an instructor up to the school to educate the profs on the legal changes.

It does seem completely ineffective to have people who don't know much about guns coming up with verbiage to address them.

 

[Mreed911]

Important point about Jan 1. On that day, the border of campus becomes the end of OC in Texas. But that border is much more porous, poorly defined and difficult to identify than most people think. I think there's a very real possibility that somebody is going to accidentally OC right onto campus, or even right into a classroom. I don't think our University Counsel or Police chief has really thought about that, they certainly haven't said anything. How do we alert people (especially non-chl) about the change of laws?

There's always the chance of someone mistaking what they can carry where - just like there is today. In fact, many of us worried about that come September 1st, worried that folks not following the legislation would assume OC "went live" like most other laws - on September 1. Past that, it's not your job to "alert people (especially non-chl) about the change of laws." It's your job to teach a class (or classes).

My understanding is that I can't demand to see a chl if a gun is revealed in the classroom. Only a law enforcement officer can do that, I was told. Leave the room, call a cop is what I was told to do in that case.

You can "demand" anything you want - there's nothing illegal about that. Rather than demanding, I might take the approach of simply asking "excuse me, are you aware your weapon is showing?" in a quiet manner (so, to your point, as not to alarm other students).

Having done exactly that with a foreign air marshall on a plane I can attest to the positive results.

Why should I assume that every weapon is legal and its owner well intentioned?

Someone else gave a cogent answer so I'll give the condensed version: because carrying weapons is legal and the well-intentioned haven't burst into the classroom with it drawn, yelling at folks to "get down!" or starting to fire.

You should also remember that CHL'ers are 5% of the population, so for every 20 students over the age of 21, 1, on average, will have a CHL. Those also tend to "cluster," so I'd probably expect that number to be even less for the 21-25 age range.

Exactly, I see no reason to have each professor put rules and policies in every syllabus. That's asking for trouble in more ways than just in relation to firearms. Each student must receive rules and policies from a single source, the school handbook.

Now, if you're assigned to create language in the handbook, fine. But, it sounds like you're in a position to influence the notion of putting it in each syllabus - don't let them do it.

Exactly. This belongs in the student handbook/code of conduct and should be authored by the police - the same police who will be responding to any infractions. I'd also expect there to be some form of student conduct penalty, too, separate from any legalities.

The school administration should really bring an instructor up to the school to educate the profs on the legal changes.

It does seem completely ineffective to have people who don't know much about guns coming up with verbiage to address them.

This. Hiring a CHL instructor to come in and provide the equivalent of a class/law update would likely be very productive. Texas Law Shield might offer a similar service beyond the videos they've posted on YouTube/their web site.

 

[Wiliamr]

TexasPro...
ANswer the following questions please. Consider this a test.
1) Do you teach undergrads or grads?
2) Teach lecture classes or smaller classroom size classes?
3) Approximately either by number or percentage) of you students are over 21?
4) Have you read the Texas Penal Code regarding firearms carry?
5) Have you discussed the law with an attorney outside the University who is qualified and or an expert on Concealed Carry and or Open Carry?
6) Have you reviewed what other Universities in states that already have CC or OC on campus do and what experiences they have?
7)(Presuming you wish to keep your specific College - University name out of this) How many under-grad students, how many grad students are enrolled in your school?
8) Is your school considered by the 2010 US Census a rural or an Urban school?

Your answers will give a better insight into your situation.

 

[matefrio]

How about "No display or threatening students, faculty or staff with weapons of any kind."

covers everything including non guns.

As for this being an issue and everything covered what was your knife policy all these years it's been legal to open carry a knife?

 

[matefrio]

Edit "No careless display or threatening of students, faculty or staff with weapons of any kind."

 

[cbigclarke]

Not productive Clarke

ETA: or ZW

If the man scared...

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[satx78247]

To All,

I sent "TexasProf" a PM offering to take him shooting BUT he never answered. = Methinks he is an ANTI-GUN/LEFTIST/EXTREMIST & is "trying to start something".

yours, satx

 

[cbigclarke]

I've been saying that all along

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[jrbfishn]

Quite possibly. But it's more fun to let them prove it themselves.

from an idgit coffeeholic

 

[Shotgun Jeremy]

I wonder how hard it'd be to get on my schools "task force" for this?