If the 1911 is your EDC, do you ...?

[Savage20]

i love arrogant old farts

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Most of my HKs have de-cookers.
Maybe they should be added to 1911s to make them safer.

 

[Mikewood]

Most of my HKs have de-cookers.
Maybe they should be added to 1911s to make them safer.

Except most 1911's are single action and can't be fired with the hammer down unless the shooter manually cocks the gun. The easiest way to do that is to run the slide so why not just set condition three chamber empty? Cocking a 1911 with any kind of a beaver tail safety causes you to break your grip to get your thumb over the safety and cock the pistol.

 

[Big Dipper]

As Mikewood mentioned in post #56, hammer down on a loaded chamber (since referred to as condition 2) was the standard "safe" position at the time that JMB was designing the M1911. Indeed in the initial design of the M1911 this is what JMB intended. In that patent, he even explains how his design allows for this to be done single handed with the hammer spur pressing down on the "nose" of the grip safety, "thereby releasing the trigger". U.S. Pat. 984519 filed Feb 17, 1910 https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US984519.pdf Beginning at page 7 line 8

Because this then forced the user to have to cock the hammer, it slowed down the ability to go from "safe" to ready. Correcting this led to the improvement covered in the second patent.

Here are JMB's own words explaining the safety and his subsequent intention that the pistol be carried in what later became known as "cocked and locked" or condition 1.

U.S. Pat. 1070582, filed April 23, 1913 https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US1070582.pdf

Beginning at page 2 line 106

If, with the pistol thus made ready for instant use, the occasion for firing or for continued firing had passed, and it was desired to make the pistol temporarily safe for carrying, it was necessary to lower the hammer to the safety position, and special means were provided for enabling the lowering of the hammer to be performed, if necessary, by the use of only the hand holding the pistol. Experience, however, has shown that the exigencies of active military service make it at times necessary that the pistol be carried for a longer or shorter time with a loaded cartridge in the barrel, a charged magazine in its seat and with the hammer cocked, so as to still remain ready for instantly firing a maximum number of shots without requiring any initial movement, except the pulling of the trigger. At the same time, it is as necessary to positively prevent its accidental discharge while being so carried. For fulfilling, as nearly as possible, these necessary but contradictory requirements, an additional manually operated combined slide-lock and hammer-lock of novel construction and with additional functions has been provided on the pistol, which serves to at will lock the breech-slide and the firing mechanism and make the pistol positively safe against discharge though a cartridge is in the chamber and the hammer is cocked, or to at will release these parts and make the pistol ready for firing; with this added device the locking or releasing of the slide and of the hammer require only a slight pressure by the thumb of the hand grasping the grip of the pistol, without demanding such attention, care and exertion as are required for cocking the hammer or for releasing and lowering the same.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Except most 1911's are single action and can't be fired with the hammer down unless the shooter manually cocks the gun. The easiest way to do that is to run the slide so why not just set condition three chamber empty? Cocking a 1911 with any kind of a beaver tail safety causes you to break your grip to get your thumb over the safety and cock the pistol.

How could using two hands to operate the slide be "easier" than reaching up a thumb and cocking the hammer?

 

[TheDan]

Even considering the grip and thumb safety, I am very concerned about carrying mine loaded, round in the chamber, hammer cocked. It seems the thumb safety could be easily bumped off (since it clicks down), and my trigger is very sensitive even tho covered in my pancake holster.

It depends on the quality of the trigger job. You can have a light, short travel trigger that is nigh impossible to bump off, but poor geometry on a 5lb trigger can be dangerous.

I carry mine chambered, cocked and locked, if you're still counting votes

 

[Mikewood]

How could using two hands to operate the slide be "easier" than reaching up a thumb and cocking the hammer?

It comes down to running the gun and combat shooting. Gross vs fine motor skills. It's easier to grip the slide and rip it back than it is to get your thumb and twist it around and break your grip and cock it and then get your thumb back and adjust your grip. I agree with you though. It's all in how you were taught to run the gun. If a 1911 goes click do you cock it and try again or TRB (tap rack bang)? I can pick up just about any auto loading pistol in the world, take the safer off and press the trigger. If it doesn't fire I TRB. We won't have time in a fight to run one gun one way and another some different way and you might not start a fight with the gun you started it with. I like to make life easy on myself and it's easier to run all pistols the same way.

 

[Jack Ryan]

It comes down to running the gun and combat shooting. Gross vs fine motor skills. It's easier to grip the slide and rip it back than it is to get your thumb and twist it around and break your grip and cock it and then get your thumb back and adjust your grip. I agree with you though. It's all in how you were taught to run the gun. If a 1911 goes click do you cock it and try again or TRB (tap rack bang)? I can pick up just about any auto loading pistol in the world, take the safer off and press the trigger. If it doesn't fire I TRB. We won't have time in a fight to run one gun one way and another some different way and you might not start a fight with the gun you started it with. I like to make life easy on myself and it's easier to run all pistols the same way.

If, what, when, wa wa wa.

Go back to the magazine rack. You still need some more jargon before you are ready to "run your gun".

 

[Mikewood]

If, what, when, wa wa wa.

Go back to the magazine rack. You still need some more jargon before you are ready to "run your gun".

Awesome dude. You asked questions. Got a valid thoughtful response but didn't like the terms and only offer insults in response. You don't like the phrase TRB? Probably too old school.

Cool.

 

[PRE-K]

Kydex instead of leather... one more "safety" if the thumb & grip safeties somehow simultaneously become deactivated.

 

[texasnurse]

A properly formed leather holster retains the thumb safety


Sent with my IPhone with electronics and fuzzy logic...

 

[F350-6]

I love how there are so many questions about how to effectively carry a 100+ year old design like the idea of carrying in condition one is somehow new even though it pre-dates every current member of this forum.

 

[seeker_two]

It comes down to running the gun and combat shooting. Gross vs fine motor skills. It's easier to grip the slide and rip it back than it is to get your thumb and twist it around and break your grip and cock it and then get your thumb back and adjust your grip. I agree with you though. It's all in how you were taught to run the gun. If a 1911 goes click do you cock it and try again or TRB (tap rack bang)? I can pick up just about any auto loading pistol in the world, take the safer off and press the trigger. If it doesn't fire I TRB. We won't have time in a fight to run one gun one way and another some different way and you might not start a fight with the gun you started it with. I like to make life easy on myself and it's easier to run all pistols the same way.

Unless you're used to shooting single-action revolvers......

 

[Mikewood]

Unless you're used to shooting single-action revolvers......

A single action revolver has a grip designed to be operated with one hand and its curved to help the thumb reach the hammer without effort. A 1911 by contrast and particularly a modern one with a beaver tail safety is designed to wedge the web of the hand into a high position and prevent the thumb from sliding up to the hammer.

 

[seeker_two]

A single action revolver has a grip designed to be operated with one hand and its curved to help the thumb reach the hammer without effort. A 1911 by contrast and particularly a modern one with a beaver tail safety is designed to wedge the web of the hand into a high position and prevent the thumb from sliding up to the hammer.

Very true.....which is why the original 1911 design didn't have an extended beavertail and did have a spur hammer. Modern 1911's with extended beavertails and Commander-style hammers are best carried in Condition One. 1911's made to the original specs can do Condition Two.....but are also better in Condition One.

 

[40Arpent]

Kydex instead of leather... one more "safety" if the thumb & grip safeties somehow simultaneously become deactivated.

How so?

 

[40Arpent]

A properly formed leather holster retains the thumb safety


Sent with my IPhone with electronics and fuzzy logic...

In the form of friction, yes, but not enough to overcome a hard bump on the outboard safety lever.

 

[texasnurse]

In the form of friction, yes, but not enough to overcome a hard bump on the outboard safety lever.

Why have an ambi in the first place; a left handed safety with a sweat shield cradles the safety in an engaged position; irregardless if the safety is bumped to disengagement the Grip safety has to be depressed, and the trigger pulled. A trigger would have to virtually "weightless" in terms of pull in order to rattle the sear into disengagement(if the trigger was properly covered by the holster). Most likely a grip safety failure the results in the safety being depressed would also pull back on the exposed hammer. If the trigger should so then move the hammer would fall to the captive half cock or shelf as the case may be.


Sent with my IPhone with electronics and fuzzy logic...

 

[40Arpent]

Why have an ambi in the first place;

Several reasons, but that's not the point. I was merely pointing out that you can't make an absolute statement that leather will retain a 1911's safety lever, that's all. All that other stuff you wrote is "preaching to the choir." :-)

...irregardless...

That's not a word.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

I'm left handed...