Reloading 45-70

[sergeant69]

FWIW..........i have been using hornady dies for my 45-70 loading for awhile. i shoot only cast (so far) that i make myself. WW, lead, tin. i use gas checks to keep leading to a minimum. i load only in the 1100-1500 fps range to keep recoil down due to shoulder surgery. plus, GARRET and NATHAN FOSTER have both, among others, have definitively shown that slower velocities result in deeper penetration and higher velocities penetrate less. and a 45-70 bullet is a slow mover compared to most. someone recently put a 45-70 cast slug thru 14 one gallon jugs of water with the slug exiting the last jug. a 300 win mag (??) i think, not sure, stopped at 3 jugs at same range going flat out. so a slow moving super wide meplat slug is fine for me and my shoulder.
dies....the hornady seating die continues to put a ring around the top of the slug as it seats the bullet due to stem design (not suited for a wide meplat bullet). i have in the past when experiencing this just poured molten lead into the stem making it a "flat" seater. i heard that RCBS makes cowboy shooting dies to address this. relunctately, i bought a set and i can now seat and and crimp in one operation w/no bullet nose deformation. and a good crimp. and yes, you need a good heavy crimp on a 45-70 in a tubular magazine.

 

[TheDan]

Without a scope mounted and a great rest (or similar setup like improved sights) I doubt it is worth the effort.

Scope is mounted. Is leaning up against my tractor an adequate rest?
Didn't you shoot it at the last real Hicksville?

wish i could snap out those answers and look good doing it too. fact is, i shot it 6 times with a cast 465 GC over 15.5 Trail Boss at a gong at the end of a marlin 1895 scope dial in session at the range before packing it in. felt like a .44 spec light load. i have 40 rds of 465 gr and 405 gr over 34 and 37 grs IMR 3031 waiting to be shot. hopefully within the next two weeks. COL is 2.508

There's not much information specific to the BFR out there. I guess the folks that buy them don't experiment much... I wonder if treating it like a large handgun round would be more appropriate than a rifle round. The BFR is designed to handle .500s&w pressures, so there's not much concern of blowing her up. Now that all manner of powder is readily available again, I think I need to get several and take a day to experiment.

Factory 325gr Leverevolution rounds shoot great out of it, but I'm wanting something with a heavier bullet.

 

[Dawico]

Scope is mounted. Is leaning up against my tractor an adequate rest?
Didn't you shoot it at the last real Hicksville?

My son and I both shot it but I can't recall it having a scope. I guess maybe it did. I think I remember your holster being made for it.

 

[sergeant69]

well, i'm gonna be experimenting a LOT with it when i can. i've seen some of those u tube vids of guys trying to kill their wrists with em. fun to watch but those days are over for me. my thought now is to work up a manageable load using my cast 465 gr ers.

 

[TheDan]

i've seen some of those u tube vids of guys trying to kill their wrists with em. fun to watch but those days are over for me.

You should have gotten a .44mag if you were going to be a wuss

 

[sergeant69]

another one?? i got 2 rugers and a 29 now!

 

[ROGER4314]

Well, crap! I did it again! I enjoy that 1895 stainless rifle so much that I popped again! I got an 1895 Guide Gun with 22" barrel in blue. It has the checkered Walnut stock but this one has a pistol grip stock instead of the straight stock like the the stainless rifle. It's a beauty! I'll call that 45-70 bucket list item complete, now.

Got the 100 45-70 cases deburred and ready to load, but the powder is kept in the barn and it was raining all weekend. Had to let it go.

Retirement is a lot of fun! Gonna bop 'til I drop!

Flash

 

[gdr_11]

Remember, you're almost literally lobbing bricks with this round. Ya, you can get some decent groups out of it, but don't expect the world. My 1895G will do single ragged holes at 50 years, but stretching it to 100 it opens up. Granted I'm throwing 300gr pills at 2300fps or so.

The Nosler / Combined Technology 300 gr bullets have served me very well, and should kill anything outside of the big 4 in Africa. I would like to get into casting some heavy stuff though.

When I had my 1895 I used to load 30.0 gr of the old Hercules 2400 to push a Hornady 300 gr. JHP. It was a great load and the slow burning 2400 made for an awesome muzzle flash. You could kill and cook at the same time.

 

[ROGER4314]

Later, on that rainy evening, I used some of the H4895 from our .375 Socom project to load up 100 45-70 rounds using Sierra 300 grain flat nose, soft point, hollow point bullets left over from the .458 Socom project. The resulting 45-70 rounds at retail run $2 to $3 per pop. That was a very profitable evening of reloading!

OK.....my old motto was "Anything worth doing is worth doing to excess!" I popped for another Marlin lever action in .44 magnum. I had one almost 40 years ago and regretfully, swapped it off. That's fixed, now! Since .44 Magnum is also set up for the Dillon, it should be cheap shooting.

Fiddling with guns and reloading is my retirement hobby. I do this 24/7 and have a ball! Never thought about retirement, before. Shoulda done this sooner!

Flash

 

[ROGER4314]

I removed the front and rear sights from the blue 1895 Guide Gun and installed a scope base. Medium rings hold the Nikon Prostaff 3-9x 40 scope. I put a leather sling on the rifle as we carry the rifles to the blind. That folks, is the hog gun supreme!

Friend Karen took her 1895 stainless guide gun with laminated stock to to their property and husband Jim filmed her shooting it. The recoil set her back a bit, but she loved it! She was shooting the store bought 300 grain ammo ($46 per box of 20!) and that's the load that I like to load. It uses the same bullet as the .458 Socom. Not counting brass cost, those loads cost less than 50 cents to make!

Flash

 

[APynckel]

I removed the front and rear sights from the blue 1895 Guide Gun and installed a scope base. Medium rings hold the Nikon Prostaff 3-9x 40 scope. I put a leather sling on the rifle as we carry the rifles to the blind. That folks, is the hog gun supreme!

Friend Karen took her 1895 stainless guide gun with laminated stock to to their property and husband Jim filmed her shooting it. The recoil set her back a bit, but she loved it! She was shooting the store bought 300 grain ammo ($46 per box of 20!) and that's the load that I like to load. It uses the same bullet as the .458 Socom. Not counting brass cost, those loads cost less than 50 cents to make!

Flash

When you start casting, they get FAR less expensive

 

[ROGER4314]

When you start casting, they get FAR less expensive

Good point! I cast bullets for many years and even worked for a custom bullet maker in Tulsa. I couldn't agree with you more! I still have the casting gear in a storage trunk and kept it because of the uncertain political climate. It just made sense to use the same jacketed bullets that the .458 Socom project uses.

Flash

 

[sergeant69]

decided to get cute and hollow pointed some 330gr cast ww/lead mix. put em in my hobby lathe and drilled em then loaded em over 32.0 grs. REL 7. saving up milk jugs to fill next time i go to the range. gonna try em in the BFR and guide gun.

 

[APynckel]

If you're wanting to HP a soft alloy like that, I might suggest water quenching them after casting to harden up the outer crystalline structure a little bit. Should help the bullet retain its mass when it hits soft fleshy meatsacks.

 

[sergeant69]

really? a 330 gr slug ww with some lead mixed in needs help retaining its mass when hitting fleshy meatsacks? have u ever been hunting? how much "mass" do you think it needs? if it hit bone a bullet like that could still plow through like freight train. and they are for, as stated, blowing up milk jugs and huge cans of spaghatti sauce etc. and my 30 lb gong at 100 yds. WD bullets that big? maybe for bear skulls! you should see what my 460 gr AC GC do to the gong.

 

[APynckel]

All I am saying is that soft lead upon impact is going to shear away as it penetrates. If you harden it up some, it will still deform, but not necessarily riddle your meat with lead deposits.

 

[ROGER4314]

I had a great time this afternoon teaching two really neat friends how to reload! They took to it like a duck takes to water!

They chose to begin with 45-70 with 300 grain Hornady #4500 bullets and H4895 powder. It went smooth as silk and we loaded 50 rounds on the RCBS Rock Chucker outfit that friend Jim just bought. Jim's wife has a beautiful Marlin 1895 stainless with grey laminated stock so I'll bet the 45-70 decision was based on getting her some ammo. The last box of ammo she shot had a price tag of $46 on it!

I brought my dies from home to let them try them out before they spent any money on dies.

Friends, rifles, homemade pizza, iced tea and reloading. How the heck can you beat that?

In all, it was a wonderful day!

Flash

 

[sergeant69]

All I am saying is that soft lead upon impact is going to shear away as it penetrates. If you harden it up some, it will still deform, but not necessarily riddle your meat with lead deposits.

still shaking my head. in over 50 years of hunting rabbits to elk, never seen any of the meat "riddled" with lead. have seen a few high velocity jacked HPs shed some jacket when it hit bone, and HARD cast bullets (water dropped) (casting temp too high) fragment when hit bone, but how the hell is MEAT, which is a lot softer than a "soft" cast slug, gonna cause a shearing away effect of the much harder bullet? thats like pounding a bucket of jello with a hammer and expecting the hammer to come apart. however, if you got pics of MEAT riddled with lead deposits from a cast bullet entering the " soft fleshy meat packet" please lets see em. it defies science.

 

[Dawico]

still shaking my head. in over 50 years of hunting rabbits to elk, never seen any of the meat "riddled" with lead. have seen a few high velocity jacked HPs shed some jacket when it hit bone, and HARD cast bullets (water dropped) (casting temp too high) fragment when hit bone, but how the hell is MEAT, which is a lot softer than a "soft" cast slug, gonna cause a shearing away effect of the much harder bullet? thats like pounding a bucket of jello with a hammer and expecting the hammer to come apart. however, if you got pics of MEAT riddled with lead deposits from a cast bullet entering the " soft fleshy meat packet" please lets see em. it defies science.

So your lead bullets that do not hit bone come out the other side in the same exact shape they went in?

I would like to see some pictures of that.

 

[sergeant69]

So your lead bullets that do not hit bone come out the other side in the same exact shape they went in?

I would like to see some pictures of that.

who said the came out in the exact shape they went in? i said they didn't come out sheared away after riddling the meat as he stated. if you can't follow the concept here of what he said reread and try again. they come out EXPANDED, not fractured from meat contact.