What kind of training do you want?
- Thread starter Roach011
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I really wish I had access to more training but my area has little to no training sessions. That means that I must travel to get training which in turns adds to cost. I've done a few sessions but for the most part they have been fairly basic.
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so i think the semantic discussion between training and practice has derailed this thread a bit.
Yes, you can learn from books. The information comes from experiences from many people over many many years. Good instructors have gathered experience from their own experiences, books, others experiences, research and from students in their classes. This is a massive amount of information distilled and provided in a 1 or 2 day (typically) format for reasonable prices. Yes, you could read books and have no guarantee of doing the techniques described correctly. Yes you can watch YouTube videos but again, you only get a piece of the puzzle. In a quality training class, you get not only high caliber information but also feedback some an SME guaranteeing you are doing whatever it is correctly.
Training requires feedback from someone with the expert knowledge. You cannot get that from a book, yourself, your buddy Joe, your uncle Bill or the internet.
Why reinvent the wheel? I understand perfecting the wheel (in theory) but to find your own way to competence....why? That seems like a terrible idea that would yield unreliable results in a massive amount of wasted time and money.
I would just like to say that I wasn't suggesting anyone not learn to train from a qualified instructor, that certainly would be best. I was just pointing out that, yes, you can train on your own. In practice, if you learn something from it, it is training. If anything improves in practice, it is training.
I'm a welding instructor or teacher, not a trainer, for it is the student that trains, and I help provide the knowledge to train.
I'm a welding instructor or teacher, not a trainer, for it is the student that trains, and I help provide the knowledge to train.
What a great question! level 1 training is about shooting the gun. Every other level of training is about solving problems, not shooting guns! Its about processing information quickly and accurately. Its about learning to perform complex tasks under stress. Its about preparing your mind.
Do you have training in rhetoric?
posted mainly because I know that just the sight of this guy infuriates some people.
A surprisingly middle-of-the-road take on this subject, posted mainly because I know that just the sight of this guy infuriates some people.
Good point though, I certainly wouldn't say that you have to have training to own a gun. I would rather be around an untrained responsible person then be around a trained irresponsible person.
I respectfully disagreed here: Paul Howe (CSAT Training - Combat Shooting And Tactics) has an excellent set of videos, produced by Panteao - his own CSAT targets for training purposes and CSAT Standards for use with these targets. (along with quite a few articles on his CSAT web-site).
Using his standards. along with reviewing his videos and his articles below, dang near anyone can realistically, improve all manner of their shooting skills. I especially like his targets and shooting standards, they are no-nonsense and work.
Here's a link to his articles: http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/published.htm
You'll find a bit of background on Paul Howe if ya take the time to look him up online or read his books, as he was one of the Delta force guys in Somalia during a little military engagement known as Black-hawk Down - nice guy, very friendly and approachable. I have met him in town here at the local Mexican restaurant and conversed with him at his shop when buying some of his products - hope to train with him this later year, after I feel confident enough that I can meet his shooting standards.
Background on Mr. Howe and his targets here on youtube :
I know who he is. He conducts training classes. Why? Because he understands you can't learn everything from a video. You need feedback. I'm sure you can imagine, if you could learn everything from a video, you wouldn't see videos.
Why is it so important to you how others choose to train?
Why do you feel the average (or possibly above average in this group) gun owner couldn't adequately employ their firearm when needed?
How proficient do you think someone should be before they decide they've spent enough money on training classes?
Do you feel those who choose no to spend money on training classes are less safe?
Why do you feel the average (or possibly above average in this group) gun owner couldn't adequately employ their firearm when needed?
How proficient do you think someone should be before they decide they've spent enough money on training classes?
Do you feel those who choose no to spend money on training classes are less safe?
1 - Have you ever been to a public range? Thats why. The average gun owner is dangerous and reckless with a deadly instrument. I think the vast majority of people who carry a gun live in world of "i think i could" without having an objective look at their real skills. I think the average concealed carrier has never pressure tested anything. The average is lost in unconscious incompetence. They don't know what they don't know. I used to be that person. Training fixed it. Its a whole new world on this side of the show.
2 - I think its more important that an individual has a realist understanding of their capabilities. If you wanted a quantitative measure...10 shots B8 25 yards. 90% or better under 30 seconds displays an ability to shoot. However, the ability to think and process information quickly and accurately is a much better result of training. That isn't quantifiable.
3 - generally, yes. BUT being safe and following the firearms safety rules is one thing. Utilizing a firearm, in public, to effectively eliminate a threat without killing an innocent bystander or flagging every innocent in the area is not safe. People who carry a gun need to understand the ramifications of thinking your better than you are. It could cost someone their life. Concealed carriers play for keeps. its the real deal every time you walk out of your front door. When you stand at 7 yards on a beautiful sunny day and it looks like a shotgun went off but you say "oh well, its combat accurate" or "its good enough" or "well i hit the bad guy"....when stress hits you for the first time (and its your first time because guess what you didnt train for it) you miss. You miss a lot. You kill little Sally behind your bad guy. People dont take this shit seriously. It makes us all look bad.
end rant. feel free to ask more questions.
Actually I think everyone should train. Target shooting could be considered proficiency training. Do I think you should spend lots of money on training? If that's what you want, go for it. Do I think you have to spend lots of money to train? No.
Time, distance, money and willingness will dictate what type of training you can get. Even if I had the best training available, it doesn't guarantee I will be better then someone that diligently trains on their own.
Time, distance, money and willingness will dictate what type of training you can get. Even if I had the best training available, it doesn't guarantee I will be better then someone that diligently trains on their own.
Wildcat Diva
TGT Addict
- Aug 26, 2016
- 3,040
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I’m not gonna knock myself for not having enough expensive training before I carry. I would probably never carry then. The most likely scenario for me using a gun defensively is with a one on one attacker or robber or rapist. I’m damn sure not gonna not carry while waiting for me to be good enough to carry. Large amounts of expensive training is not feasible for the average person.
I’m happy doing the best I can with my low cost efforts.
I’m happy doing the best I can with my low cost efforts.
Do you have any examples of the average carrier wounding innocent bystanders in a self defense situation?
Do you believe there is statistical evidence that carriers who take several training classes fair better in a self defense situation than the average carrier?
Do you believe training for extremely unlikely situations is cost effective given the likelihood of a SD encounter being at a distance of <3 yards?
Do you believe there is statistical evidence that carriers who take several training classes fair better in a self defense situation than the average carrier?
Do you believe training for extremely unlikely situations is cost effective given the likelihood of a SD encounter being at a distance of <3 yards?
