"It is sickening" to call the Boward Deputy a Coward

[Double Naught Spy]

Direct excerpt from Fox article:
>>>
The two unidentified officers were suspended on Wednesday after officials learned that “the two employees took it upon themselves to respond without notification to the SWAT commander” on February 14, creating “an extreme hazard by way of accountability, responsibility, and liability,” Chief Dexter Williams said in a statement.
<<<
This excerpt includes a quote from the Chief which is a little more authoritative than NYP, ABC or a Brit newspaper. But you have to read more than just the first paragraph of the article to reach the above excerpt.

I think the suspension is absolutely stupid as well. With that said, there was no reason they could not have given notification. It wasn't like they were on campus and responded. They were in the area doing training and responded by vehicle. So it wasn't like they could not have called and and let their department know that they were responding in aid of a crisis. I do not believe the claim about being an extreme hazard except to suggest that Dexter Williams is basically proclaiming, "Not our circus, not our monkeys." It sounds like if they had reported in, that they would have been told to stand down...you know, because they are SWAT officers and are unfamiliar with dealing with such crisises.

What I would like to know at this point if there was some sort of explicit policy in place that precluded the two SWAT officers from responding without notification. Even if there was, I can't imagine that failure to call in during a crisis merits a suspension.

 

[avvidclif]

In that type of situation the radio is usually worthless with lots of folks trying to talk at once. I haven't listened to that radio tape but that's what is usually heard. Mass confusion.

 

[F350-6]

.....Chief Dexter Williams said in a statement.
<<<
....

Apologies again. I'll be sure to take under consideration the CYA statement put out by the Chief, who already has folks not rushing into the school during a mass shooting, into consideration along with your expert opinion before I consider any other source that was published before the CYA statement.

I can't wait to hear what you will tell me next (other than re-hashing the part about me not being able to read well). But since we're on that topic of what other gems of info you have, do you have the real scoop on why Kevin Gonzalez was suspended? Obviously I can't trust anything I've read if it didn't come from you.

 

[easy rider]

 

[oldag]

Apologies again. I'll be sure to take under consideration the CYA statement put out by the Chief, who already has folks not rushing into the school during a mass shooting, into consideration along with your expert opinion before I consider any other source that was published before the CYA statement.

I can't wait to hear what you will tell me next (other than re-hashing the part about me not being able to read well). But since we're on that topic of what other gems of info you have, do you have the real scoop on why Kevin Gonzalez was suspended? Obviously I can't trust anything I've read if it didn't come from you.

Calm down, pilgrim. Your manhood is not in question here.

If you do not want to believe the words straight from the chief's mouth (and far more importantly if you want to ignore standard police procedures, even if you don't believe the chief), then please don't let me confuse you with the facts. Be like a liberal and believe whatever you want, without regard to whether or not that belief has any credibility.

But since you mentioned your reading skills in this interchange, let me provide a few quotes from the articles you cited but obviously did not read:

NYP: "The Miramar Police Department officers, identified by the Florida Sun-Sentinel as Detectives Jeffrey Gilbert and Carl Schlosser, did not advise supervisors that they were going to Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School"

ABC: “While it may have been a violation of policy to not notify their supervisors that they were going there, their intentions were brave and heroic, I think,” Police Benevolent Association President Jeff Marano told the Sun-Sentinel."

UKI: "“While it may have been a violation of policy to not notify their supervisors that they were going there, their intentions were brave and heroic, I think,” Jeff Marano, the president of the Broward County Police Benevolent Association, told the South Florida Sun-Sentinel."

Of course, the liberal media would not have any interest at all in stirring up controversy. And they always are sure to be fully accurate.

Have a good night.

 

[F350-6]

Have a good night.

I had a great night, thanks.

I also did read the parts you highlighted. It doesn't change anything I said. I'm apparently not the only one who has tunnel vision here.

 

[oldag]

I had a great night, thanks.

I also did read the parts you highlighted. It doesn't change anything I said. I'm apparently not the only one who has tunnel vision here.

So now you don't believe the union boss who would have protecting his union members (e.g., the two officers) as his top priority? Even he says the policy violation was not notifying. Mind is made up, don't confuse you with facts?

Okay, let's think a little more about the situation.

We have a Sheriff under fire because some of his officers did not enter the building. And also because one of his subordinates (Jan whatshername?) was ordering a perimeter and staging. Assuming the Sheriff has the characteristics you assume (and you could be right), why would the Sheriff want to catch further flack for disciplining two more men who did go to the scene? That just defies reason.

If his biggest concern was publicity and his own image, he would have let the two slide. He would not have wanted to create more of a fuss. But the breach of policy (e.g., not notifying) was too great to ignore. Knowing he would catch flack from people like you, he imposed the discipline anyhow rather than doing CYA and burying it.

If he was looking for scapegoats, he already had more than enough without these two.

Perhaps this is a different perspective than had been considered.

 

[Texasgordo]

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[easy rider]

^

 

[Texasgordo]

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Big Dipper]

So now you don't believe the union boss who would have protecting his union members (e.g., the two officers) as his top priority? Even he says the policy violation was not notifying. Mind is made up, don't confuse you with facts?

Okay, let's think a little more about the situation.

We have a Sheriff under fire because some of his officers did not enter the building. And also because one of his subordinates (Jan whatshername?) was ordering a perimeter and staging. Assuming the Sheriff has the characteristics you assume (and you could be right), why would the Sheriff want to catch further flack for disciplining two more men who did go to the scene? That just defies reason.

If his biggest concern was publicity and his own image, he would have let the two slide. He would not have wanted to create more of a fuss. But the breach of policy (e.g., not notifying) was too great to ignore. Knowing he would catch flack from people like you, he imposed the discipline anyhow rather than doing CYA and burying it.

If he was looking for scapegoats, he already had more than enough without these two.

Perhaps this is a different perspective than had been considered.

One problem with your analysis. The two SWAT officers were reprimanded by Chief Dexter Williams of the Miramar police department, not Sheriff Israel from Broward County!

 

[TxStetson]

^

This has been going on for a couple days. I’m tired of popcorn.

 

[easy rider]

This has been going on for a couple days. I’m tired of popcorn.

That's why you buy different types, just for these occasions.
Plus, you know if everyone else is eating popcorn, you can't resist.

 

[diesel1959]

At worst, it should have been a warning and extra PT. Suspension sends the wrong message to the other officers and to the public.....as we have seen.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

they were only suspended from the SWAT team, not from regular duty. Violate team rules, get taken off the team. That's the way it works.

 

[diesel1959]

I think you need a little background on what he's referring to. He's not saying the cops shouldn't arrest someone in response to the shooting, he's referring to a program where kids weren't sent through the typical punishment system before, and could have possibly headed off the shooting by addressing issues years ago.



So if an officer, or swat member is at a donut shop and the gas station across the street has a shooting that starts, he has to radio in for permission first before he can go over there?

Besides, the way the rest of this is unfolding, it sounds as if they would have been told not to go, as they were swat, and likely wouldn't just want to sit outside with the other deputies and school resource officer who didn't want to enter the building.

SWAT works under different rules. In regard to on-view crimes, there'd be no problem responding; however, these guys responded to Parkland AFTER the shooting had already stopped and entered into what was a strained on-scene situation (to say the least). Under their team rules, they were obliged to advise their dispatch and/or their team.

 

[diesel1959]

In that type of situation the radio is usually worthless with lots of folks trying to talk at once. I haven't listened to that radio tape but that's what is usually heard. Mass confusion.

Different departments are on different radio freqs . . . and these guys weren't local cops. They were in the area for training. But they did not advise their own dispatch of their heading to the scene.

 

[oldag]

One problem with your analysis. The two SWAT officers were reprimanded by Chief Dexter Williams of the Miramar police department, not Sheriff Israel from Broward County!

Good point. Negates 350's argument as well.

 

[F350-6]

SWAT works under different rules. In regard to on-view crimes, there'd be no problem responding; however, these guys responded to Parkland AFTER the shooting had already stopped and entered into what was a strained on-scene situation (to say the least). Under their team rules, they were obliged to advise their dispatch and/or their team.

This is where the lousy reporting comes in. I've read they were only suspended from swat, and I've read they were completely suspended. I've also read that the response was while it was still considered an active shooter situation, not an after the fact thing.

If it's an active shooter, then SWAT or not, I'd expect them to respond if they're in the area. The gray area comes when the shooting appears to have stopped, but the shooter has not been cornered or apprehended yet. In that case, don't we still have a shooter on the loose that may start to shoot again?

Good point. Negates 350's argument as well.

Not too sure how it negates my argument that some cops were suspended for responding to a mass shooting, but we'll go with your view.

 

[F350-6]

Sorry, lousy internet connection gave me a double post

 

[oldag]

Sorry, lousy internet connection gave me a double post

Naw, that was Russian cyberwarfare.