Las Vegas chase and shootout

[grasshopperglock]

With training. You don't think. It's muscle memory. Bringing up the old. The deputy who was shot dead during a revolver reload. His shell casings were found stacked on end in a perfect little row. On the ground behind the patrol car.

The exact same thing he did at the range. He trained himself to stack cases. He's dead because of it.

The key is correct mindless repetitive training. Over and over. How you train is how you fight. Whatever that officer was doing. It shows his training sucked. Chinese fire drill using magazines and different hands. Stress or not. It's all about training.

 

[diesel1959]

I am fully aware of why the felons were being pursued. But this guy was not the only cop in town. To hang back and follow until the situation could be concluded in a more controlled manner would have avoided the risk of wild rounds hitting an innocent.

The felons were shooting all throughout that pursuit. THAT is the shooting that needed to be stopped ASAP. Every single shot those perps fired was a possible dead child, injured grandparent, car-full-of-nuns-shot, etc. Keep in mind the CONTINUING VIOLENT FELONIES BEING COMMITTED by the felons throughout the pursuit. And all that is after the felons had already killed someone, so they had nothing to lose. They were dead meat already and had no reason to allow themselves to be taken alive.

Keeping that set of facts ever in the foreground of your brain-housing-unit, the officer did what he had to do to put down the situation.

 

[diesel1959]

We know that but the dictionary folks don't, unfortunately.

Yeah, the dictionary folks are rarely gun folks--go figure. :lol:

 

[diesel1959]

And that justifies police hypocrisy? Serve and protect by putting the public in danger? We all know how difficult aimed one-handed fire is, mag-dumping one-handed through a windshield while driving is the definition of spray and pray, and he saw fit to do it in the middle of a suburban street.

Spare me your "rough men stand ready" nonsense, that only works for gullible children. Subconsciously you must know this, hence your use of "son".

SMDH

I could break the thing down for you--action by action--but you would remain unmoved, unsatisfied, and whatever. So I won't bother.

The officer's actions were praise-worthy, legal, and appropriate.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

No, thumbs-crossed with a semi-auto is NEVER good. It's a great way to put "skin (your own) in the game". I don't believe that is his normal grip, just like that mag change isn't his normal mag change. Shit happens in a gun fight. Shit you don't plan on . . . even if you plan.

Thank you for answering because I was hoping to get a few replies to this.

If this wasn’t his normal grip, I would be surprised, because he did it twice. Inside the car, and also, outside the car after the reload.

Not overly critical, just curious.

 

[grasshopperglock]

Proper term for what he was doing. "Graba$$"

 

[diesel1959]

Thank you for answering because I was hoping to get a few replies to this.

If this wasn’t his normal grip, I would be surprised, because he did it twice. Inside the car, and also, outside the car after the reload.

Not overly critical, just curious.

It looked to be an inadvertent "hasty" grip--possibly due to the fact that the steering wheel was in the way of him moving his left hand into the more normal position. Beyond that, it's just mere speculation.

 

[Southpaw]

No one has mentioned turtles yet......

Oops!

I was thinking it. Does that count?

 

[Wildcat Diva]

It looked to be an inadvertent "hasty" grip--possibly due to the fact that the steering wheel was in the way of him moving his left hand into the more normal position. Beyond that, it's just mere speculation.

Yeah, I thought about that too and even wondered if that was somehow a tactic for shooting in that position.

Then, when he reloaded and did the same thing standing outside the car with a new chance to get a grip on the firearm, I was like hmmmm...

 

[grasshopperglock]

Ever applied to be a cop? As long as you have a high school diploma or a GED. You're in.

The poorest shots I've ever seen were police officers. Pencil holes in targets to get them qualified.

One range. I shot the basic 40 rounds through the qualification. My target had 44 holes. The uniform is polyester and lots of police can't aim for $hit.

 

[sharkey]

Ever applied to be a cop? As long as you have a high school diploma or a GED. You're in.

The poorest shots I've ever seen were police officers. Pencil holes in targets to get them qualified.

One range. I shot the basic 40 rounds through the qualification. My target had 44 holes. The uniform is polyester and lots of police can't aim for $hit.

Wow, pretty broad statements that are squarely wrong. So square range qualification is not representative of a gun fight in the street.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[oldag]

One range. I shot the basic 40 rounds through the qualification. My target had 44 holes.

Had something similar when I did the CHL qual. Guy next to me put a round into my target near an edge. Instructor just shook his head.

 

[grasshopperglock]

Wow, pretty broad statements that are squarely wrong. So square range qualification is not representative of a gun fight in the street.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Ever had somebody point a gun at you? Ever have the image of the round end of a shotgun muzzle stuck in your head? Ever had tunnel vision? Not garden variety stress, real life tunnel vision?

Yep. The range isn't the same. At all. Neither was the hole in the floor of the patrol room where an officer shot the floor while playing with his sidearm.

Yep

 

[grasshopperglock]

Had something similar when I did the CHL qual. Guy next to me put a round into my target near an edge. Instructor just shook his head.

That's when I started taking the end target. The last target on the row. If I had extra holes. It could only be the next two officers on my left.

 

[TheMailMan]

With training. You don't think. It's muscle memory. Bringing up the old. The deputy who was shot dead during a revolver reload. His shell casings were found stacked on end in a perfect little row. On the ground behind the patrol car.

The exact same thing he did at the range. He trained himself to stack cases. He's dead because of it.

The key is correct mindless repetitive training. Over and over. How you train is how you fight. Whatever that officer was doing. It shows his training sucked. Chinese fire drill using magazines and different hands. Stress or not. It's all about training.

In many departments during firearms training they were all about the draw, so they would have the revolver guys draw, shoot two shots, holster and repeat. Many an old time cop was shot after firing two shots and holstering his gun. Muscle memory. Lots of them had their spent brass in their pocket too. During training they would pocket the brass to keep the range clean.

If you have the chance to get on a range where police train you'll find lots of unfired rounds on the ground. That's because they are running failure drills and the specifically train NOT TO PICK up those rounds. On my old range in Portland I picked up hundreds of rounds of premium handgun ammo after police training days. A lot of the Federal agencies use carry ammo to train with.

 

[grasshopperglock]

In many departments during firearms training they were all about the draw, so they would have the revolver guys draw, shoot two shots, holster and repeat. Many an old time cop was shot after firing two shots and holstering his gun. Muscle memory. Lots of them had their spent brass in their pocket too. During training they would pocket the brass to keep the range clean.

If you have the chance to get on a range where police train you'll find lots of unfired rounds on the ground. That's because they are running failure drills and the specifically train NOT TO PICK up those rounds. On my old range in Portland I picked up hundreds of rounds of premium handgun ammo after police training days. A lot of the Federal agencies use carry ammo to train with.

Clearing drills plus the county pays for the ammo.

I never touch a magazine unless I'm inserting it into the pistol. Empty mags are chunked out the gun. I do not touch them. Besides I can't. My left hand already has a fresh mag ready to go. Ill knock the pistol against something if the mag doesn't come instantly out.

Grabbing an empty magazine that isn't stuck is a no-go. It's disposable no matter how expensive it is.

 

[diesel1959]

Ever applied to be a cop? As long as you have a high school diploma or a GED. You're in.

The poorest shots I've ever seen were police officers. Pencil holes in targets to get them qualified.

One range. I shot the basic 40 rounds through the qualification. My target had 44 holes. The uniform is polyester and lots of police can't aim for $hit.

It is all too often true; however, the percentage distribution of gun-guys and non-gun-guys both in and out of law enforcement is roughly the same. It's a slice of life and the society from which the applicants are drawn. :meh:

 

[diesel1959]

Ever had somebody point a gun at you? Ever have the image of the round end of a shotgun muzzle stuck in your head? Ever had tunnel vision? Not garden variety stress, real life tunnel vision?

Yep. The range isn't the same. At all. Neither was the hole in the floor of the patrol room where an officer shot the floor while playing with his sidearm.

Yep

You and I both know that range qual wasn't for the Officers' benefit . . . it was to check off a "box" for the department. Range qual isn't even considered "training". Training is a whole other thing and much of the responsibility falls squarely upon the officers themselves to train, train, train. Every department I've been with would provide ammo to the officer to go out and train on their own. Some training is formal, with a firearms instructor conducting same. Some training is sought out by the individual officers at various schools--private or public. But training is required and on a fairly continuous basis.

 

[grasshopperglock]

You and I both know that range qual wasn't for the Officers' benefit . . . it was to check off a "box" for the department. Range qual isn't even considered "training". Training is a whole other thing and much of the responsibility falls squarely upon the officers themselves to train, train, train. Every department I've been with would provide ammo to the officer to go out and train on their own. Some training is formal, with a firearms instructor conducting same. Some training is sought out by the individual officers at various schools--private or public. But training is required and on a fairly continuous basis.

There's suppose to be a state champion shooter employed at the Bell County Adult Probation. The agency encourages them to shoot at every opportunity. Unlimited ammo supply to do so.

I forgot his name. Carries a full size Sig. There's good shots and there's really bad shots.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

My son in law has been a deputy for 5 years.
Only gun he owns is his duty pistol.