Stunning new study finds higher calibers make you more deader!

[seeker_two]

The stress of a match has no comparison with the stress of a life or death situation.

https://www.mentalhelp.net/articles/stress-inoculation-therapy/

Stress inoculation such as competition or force-on-force training helps one to deal with the stress of an actual situation. It has research to back its success. You'll fall back to your training when the bullets start flying. Ed Mireles of the '86 FBI Shootout tells how he remembered his one-handed shotgun training when he ended the incident.

http://ballisticradio.com/2018/06/2...6-ballistic-radio-episode-260-june-24th-2018/

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[oldag]

I never said it did. I said I would hope my training would kick in. I was confident it would.

I am not trying to discourage training, avvvidclif. Rather trying to remind people of the real world.

I have been in a few emergency situations with extremely high stress. I have seen how most of the folks in that situation react. People who had training. Many people do not react well in those situations, not due to a lack of training but rather for the mental/emotional aspects that interfere with the physical execution of what needs to be done. In one situation a lab explosion occurred. Boom. A person falls out of a lab doorway a split second later. I was moving to the injured person while every other person stood frozen in shock. I admit the situation seemed a little surreal at that moment. Those frozen included the people trained to respond. I had to issue firm orders to people to finally get them moving and bringing what was needed to help the injured.

Your training will build some muscle memory, if you do enough training on a frequent enough basis.

But your training will not stop your blood pressure from going through the roof (your heart will literally be pounding so hard you will hear it). Nor will it stop the adrenaline surge, which can affect fine motor skills and even make your hands start shaking. Nor will it keep your emotions from going sky high. All of these factors will affect a person's ability to execute that for which they have trained.

Better to have some training than no training. Absolutely. But 99.999% of the people will not have adequate training to completely rely on muscle memory to hit that perp between the eyes in a real life scenario. A torso hit? Hopefully.

Cand, if someone cannot follow what is written here it is not due to mental gymnastics but a lack of reading comprehension.

 

[oldag]

https://www.mentalhelp.net/articles/stress-inoculation-therapy/

Stress inoculation such as competition or force-on-force training helps one to deal with the stress of an actual situation. It has research to back its success. You'll fall back to your training when the bullets start flying. Ed Mireles of the '86 FBI Shootout tells how he remembered his one-handed shotgun training when he ended the incident.

http://ballisticradio.com/2018/06/2...6-ballistic-radio-episode-260-june-24th-2018/

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Fell back on training? Yes. But how well did those agents actually execute? Their shot placement was far from great in spite of all their training. They fired a lot of rounds that either missed or were ineffective.

If shot placement in a real life situation was as easy as candallen thinks, why the FBI agents would have put those two criminals down right away. No FBI agent would have died or been wounded.

 

[easy rider]

This just out: "Larger hammers drive nails faster"!

 

[Kar98]

Fell back on training? Yes. But how well did those agents actually execute? Their shot placement was far from great in spite of all their training. They fired a lot of rounds that either missed or were ineffective.

If shot placement in a real life situation was as easy as candallen thinks, why the FBI agents would have put those two criminals down right away. No FBI agent would have died or been wounded.

I suggest some further reading, starting here:

https://gundigest.com/article/10mm-handguns-and-the-fbi

 

[oldag]

I suggest some further reading, starting here:

https://gundigest.com/article/10mm-handguns-and-the-fbi

I read all the FBI reports on the Miami fiasco. If you have not read them, you might find them informative.

 

[seeker_two]

I read them too. And the agents did get good hits. The perps just refused to act accordingly until Mireles finished the job doing something he actually had training to do. If the agents were as off-target as you say, things would have gone longer than five minutes.

The only thing we disagree on is if a person can make accurate shots under stress. Some can't.....and some can. The only questions we really need to answer are:

1. Can you?

2. If not, what are you doing to address that?

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[avvidclif]

I am not trying to discourage training, avvvidclif. Rather trying to remind people of the real world.

I have been in a few emergency situations with extremely high stress. I have seen how most of the folks in that situation react. People who had training. Many people do not react well in those situations, not due to a lack of training but rather for the mental/emotional aspects that interfere with the physical execution of what needs to be done. In one situation a lab explosion occurred. Boom. A person falls out of a lab doorway a split second later. I was moving to the injured person while every other person stood frozen in shock. I admit the situation seemed a little surreal at that moment. Those frozen included the people trained to respond. I had to issue firm orders to people to finally get them moving and bringing what was needed to help the injured.

Your training will build some muscle memory, if you do enough training on a frequent enough basis.

But your training will not stop your blood pressure from going through the roof (your heart will literally be pounding so hard you will hear it). Nor will it stop the adrenaline surge, which can affect fine motor skills and even make your hands start shaking. Nor will it keep your emotions from going sky high. All of these factors will affect a person's ability to execute that for which they have trained.

Better to have some training than no training. Absolutely. But 99.999% of the people will not have adequate training to completely rely on muscle memory to hit that perp between the eyes in a real life scenario. A torso hit? Hopefully.

Cand, if someone cannot follow what is written here it is not due to mental gymnastics but a lack of reading comprehension.

Your example is not what I would consider a
High stress situation. You are not aware of where I have been and seen so I will take that into consideration.

 

[oldag]

The only thing we disagree on is if a person can make accurate shots under stress. Some can't.....and some can.

I think we may be in violent agreement. I never said that no one could make an accurate shot under stress. Read back and you will see I talked about "most" people (the majority).

Yes, some folks react well under stress. Many don't.

 

[oldag]

Your example is not what I would consider a
High stress situation. You are not aware of where I have been and seen so I will take that into consideration.

Pulling someone out of a burning lab where you are not sure of what hazardous chemicals might be in the air you have to breath, not knowing if another explosion is going to occur before you can get the victim to safety, looking at a person whose face and upper body were shredded with broken glass.

I will not say you have not been in worse. I did not say you have been in worse. Not my business and I am not really concerned about it. But unless you have been in a similar situation, don't blow it off.

 

[easy rider]

I think we may be in violent agreement. I never said that no one could make an accurate shot under stress. Read back and you will see I talked about "most" people (the majority).

Yes, some folks react well under stress. Many don't.

I would say that most gun owners don't train often. I hope I never have to find out how well I do in a gun fight, but I also hope that if does come down to it, my training will come into effect.

 

[Kar98]

I would say that most gun owners don't train often. I hope I never have to find out how well I do in a gun fight, but I also hope that if does come down to it, my training will come into effect.

There is a whole industry waiting to happen for civilian self-defense gun classes, but noooooo, tacticool wannabe weekend warrior door to door fighting is so much cooler. That crap will get you killed and thrown into jail. But you felt so cool when you had your ballistic vest and three guns as you hopped from concealment to concealment, not realizing you won't have a union lawyer and body armor should it ever come to the test.
My lesson one would be "how to shit your pants on command and bawl like a toddler who dropped his popsicle". You know, for the interviews.

 

[cb51]

I would say that most gun owners don't train often. I hope I never have to find out how well I do in a gun fight, but I also hope that if does come down to it, my training will come into effect.

Training is a good thing, but if it's the wrong kind of training it's no good. Most people I see at the range are shooing oil a style that is totally a waste in a real close range criminal assault. And I've yet to see an assault armor than 6 to 7 feet. Street thugs want to get right up in your face, and at a gas station or convenience store the range will be almost contact distance. At that distance two handed weaver style shooting takes too long. Practice one hand point and shoot on a paper plate at an arm and a half distance with a gun small enough that it fits in a pocket holster in your right pocket, if your right handed. You should be able to have the gun in your hand while still in the pocket so its just pull and shoot.

You'll have about a second and a half at 7 feet. If you have to shoot at 25 yards, that's getting not fantasy land.

 

[easy rider]

Training is a good thing, but if it's the wrong kind of training it's no good. Most people I see at the range are shooing oil a style that is totally a waste in a real close range criminal assault. And I've yet to see an assault armor than 6 to 7 feet. Street thugs want to get right up in your face, and at a gas station or convenience store the range will be almost contact distance. At that distance two handed weaver style shooting takes too long. Practice one hand point and shoot on a paper plate at an arm and a half distance with a gun small enough that it fits in a pocket holster in your right pocket, if your right handed. You should be able to have the gun in your hand while still in the pocket so its just pull and shoot.

You'll have about a second and a half at 7 feet. If you have to shoot at 25 yards, that's getting not fantasy land.

I'm not going to take the time to aim in a close in encounter. If it's that close it's point and shoot as fast as possible.

 

[believer]

"deader" where did you go to school? Did you ever go to school?
Lastly how profound that you learned larger calibers are more deadly, we never would have though that a 45 caliber bullet is more deadly than a 22 cal. bullet and so congratulations on your in depth research!

 

[easy rider]

Deadlier as far as caliber goes often translates to messier. Doesn't matter what round kills you, dead is dead. A shotgun at close quarters is about as deadly as they get, as far as hand held guns go, also can be messier.

 

[BRD@66]

"deader" where did you go to school? Did you ever go to school?
Lastly how profound that you learned larger calibers are more deadly, we never would have though that a 45 caliber bullet is more deadly than a 22 cal. bullet and so congratulations on your in depth research!

 

[robertc1024]

.45 Hell Yeah!!!

(Just had to. My tacticool meter was going off.)

 

[easy rider]

.45 Hell Yeah!!!

(Just had to. My tacticool meter was going off.)

Not just any .45, everyone knows 1911's are deadlier.

 

[AustinN4]

Not just any .45, everyone knows 1911's are deadlier.

Mo deader.